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The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

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Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#191

Post by theonething »

JohnFen wrote: post #140
renjimen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, but we're unlikely to ever live in a world where there aren't paid jobs. Personally, I enjoy working with people. I may not make as much money as going solo but holistically my work life is improved by having colleagues. I think the same is true for most people. No person is an island.

> I think the same is true for most people. Sure, the same is true for me. But that's also a need that can be filled without working for someone.

Hard agree on this.

I think what we're talking about here is having a sense of community or at least human to human interaction. I can think of so many ways to get that without the obligations that come from having a job.

I generally enjoy my job but that is far from the main reason I do it. If money was not an issue, there are so many other things in life I would enjoy doing far more not to mention enjoying the general freedom that comes from not needing to work.

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#192

Post by bcrosby95 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #94
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I'm worried about where that leaves junior devs - what are the entry level jobs for coders in a post-LLM future?

They'll be the ones begging and cajoling LLMs to write the code. Notice that even these days, senior devs aren't supposed to code much - they're supposed to train up junior devs, up to the point said juniors become competent, at which point the juniors join the rank of seniors and begin to teach fresh junior hires. I.e. increasingly, juniors are the only people actually coding anything, and LLMs will only reinforce t…

> they're supposed to train up junior devs, up to the point said juniors become competent, at which point the juniors join the rank of seniors and begin to teach fresh junior hires.

Some of the shittiest code comes out of developers with this level of experience, but they're senior now and teach fresh junior hires?

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#193

Post by rpastuszak »

sha016 wrote: post #190
Ethan_Mick wrote: post #67

> More importantly, it gives me the courage to dream and attempt things beyond my current abilities. This is one of the small things that GPT has pushed me to do. I'm an experienced programmer and grew up playing video games, but I am not a game developer. I've dabbled over the years but can't build anything outside of a tutorial. The other day, using GPT I went through and made a Pixel Dungeon clone using Phaser (Ja…

I'm thinking about doing this without any game dev experience as well. All I need is access to GPT4 now...

If you don't want to pay for ChatGPT Plus, you can use an alternative client (e.g. https://www.chatbotui.com) with an API key fairly cheaply.

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#194

Post by throwuwu »

nr2x wrote: post #159
throwuwu wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, you still have to bring your own ideas and hustle to the table. The difference is that GPT flattens the learning curve on a lot of things that would previously prevent you from executing on your ideas and it helps keep the momentum up when you hit the hard part of the grind.

It’s amazing for prototypes and writing utility functions, but for fully scalable and supportable architecture it’s a long ways off. Likewise, it often generates very complex and confusing code - specifically regex in my experience where I can get the job done in a much more readable way. Don’t get me wrong, I use it all day as a little coding helper, but while it can say, advise you on how to set up a distributed sy…

Being amazing at prototypes is exactly what a one dev operation needs. You can worry about scaling after you know whether people will pay for it or not.

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#195

Post by polskibus »

rpastuszak wrote: post #193
sha016 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking about doing this without any game dev experience as well. All I need is access to GPT4 now...

If you don't want to pay for ChatGPT Plus, you can use an alternative client (e.g. https://www.chatbotui.com ) with an API key fairly cheaply.

I though phind runs with gpt4?

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#196

Post by croes »

alimov wrote: post #180
croes wrote: post #176

I wonder if this is really a benefit for learning something. A teacher who tells you the right answers doesn't sound like a good teacher. In hindsight I learned the most from my mistakes and the errors I'm to fix over longer period of time. Sometimes these failures were of use in later projects. I missing all this from GPT. It doesn't really sound like learning more like cheating.

I think that depends on how you use the tool. For example asking for answers vs asking probing questions while working something out. So it’s probably up to you as an individual. If you’re missing out on “all this” you might just be asking for answers.

If people built pages or software in one day, they seem to ask for answer too.

These means they are the less useful part in the development process and can easily be replaced.

That's why I don't see the big leverage for individuals in that kind of development. They will be one of millions with exactly the same skill set and lost without GPT. It sounds like those boot camp courses: Build ten projects in ten days to become an genius programmer.

Doesn't work, and I think people will overestimate their skill because GPT helped them to do a clone of something that already exists thousandfold.

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#197

Post by prionassembly »

rpastuszak wrote: post #193
sha016 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking about doing this without any game dev experience as well. All I need is access to GPT4 now...

If you don't want to pay for ChatGPT Plus, you can use an alternative client (e.g. https://www.chatbotui.com ) with an API key fairly cheaply.

Wait. I have an API key. Is GPT-4 available already?

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#198

Post by PeterisP »

nr2x wrote: post #146
Ethan_Mick wrote: post #67

> More importantly, it gives me the courage to dream and attempt things beyond my current abilities. This is one of the small things that GPT has pushed me to do. I'm an experienced programmer and grew up playing video games, but I am not a game developer. I've dabbled over the years but can't build anything outside of a tutorial. The other day, using GPT I went through and made a Pixel Dungeon clone using Phaser (Ja…

I’ve been using it a lot for programming, but I also have a security background and it will often generate insecure code. I’ll point it out and tell it to fix and it will. So be careful if you don’t want AI-generated sql intentions!

Different people write code of different quality, and we'd expect LLMs to imitate the median quality of code. So it's clear that if you have a background in something then it will generate worse code than you would - however, if you'd compare this code with something written by a new junior hire, how would it compare? IMHO there are many people who are objectively below median, and for them I'd expect that a LLM can generate more secure code than they would write themselves.

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#199

Post by nr2x »

throwuwu wrote: post #194
nr2x wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing for prototypes and writing utility functions, but for fully scalable and supportable architecture it’s a long ways off. Likewise, it often generates very complex and confusing code - specifically regex in my experience where I can get the job done in a much more readable way. Don’t get me wrong, I use it all day as a little coding helper, but while it can say, advise you on how to set up a distributed sy…

Being amazing at prototypes is exactly what a one dev operation needs. You can worry about scaling after you know whether people will pay for it or not.

100% agree and that’s what I use it for. My point is more it’s a time saver, but not a replacement for higher order operations. Yet.

Re: The Leverage of LLMs for Individuals

#200

Post by sha016 »

simonw wrote: post #155
the_doctah wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who use ChatGPT to spit out code as a method of learning software engineering are going to be seriously deficient in fundamentals like performance. I've already worked with way too many engineers who copy/paste code without understanding what it does.

I think this is currently an open question. It may turn out that ChatGPT results in a new generation of developers who produce terrible code, full of flaws, with no understanding of how it actually works. Or... it might be that ChatGPT helps newcomers get over that horrendous initial learning curve, start by writing bad code... and then get better at it. I'm currently cautiously optimistic that the latter scenario is…

I don't think it will help people learn as much as having to write everything yourself. Sure it will get them productive 10x faster, as a shortcut. You can only get so good at riding a bicycle by watching others ride a bike. Remember that caching issue that cost you hours of debugging? You don't forget that. Maybe the generated code doesn't produce a bug this time, but the 5th or 6th time? It's hard enough to debug code you wrote yourself sometimes, let alone generated code.
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