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Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

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Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#191
At many large companies there have been a ton of mergers and acquisitions over the last 10 years, and most meetings are already on Teams/Zoom/etc because the workers in the team are in different cities and often different continents. Even in the office many of us are just on Zoom/teams/etc for meetings.

Companies have already had mostly distributed teams for a while; this is just about control.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#192
post #179
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - ICs & seniors are required to host at least a weekly office hour to assist juniors or teach something of their choice. When I was a junior engineer working in-person, I was learning from senior engineers multiple times a day, not just once a week.

There are remote-first companies that have 24/7 channels for anyone to ask questions and discuss things with seniors. There are office-first companies with poor training culture. Commitment to training is the deciding factor.

Only part of my learning was from direct question answering. Seeing how senior people worked also helped a lot. E.g. over hearing a design discussion or seeing how they debugged outages was very helpful to me. Those things are very hard to recreate remotely.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#193
I’m approaching the point where I feel similarly about WFH deniers as I do about vaccine deniers. We performed an immediate GLOBAL switch to fully remote work and corporate life went on largely unaffected. We have the experimental data strongly supporting that it does not hurt the ability of most workers to function (exceptions apply).

What’s more annoying, is that the execs confuse their own 0.0001% career experience with that of their typical employee. Yes, if you’re running a company and in board meetings and such, then it makes sense to be face-to-face. For your SDEs, DEs, and scientists in the trenches? Not so much.

My interactions with my manager are great and keep me focused. We have zero problems communicating over video. Most other interactions are generally neutral or net-negative, a distraction from the work I would be doing for my manager.

I like these little side interactions, and I enjoy talking with my coworkers, but I don’t think it’s ultimately as beneficial to the bottom line as people think. I can move quite fast when I’m left alone to my own devices.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume this? Sam literally takes no salary or compensation of any kind from OpenAI because he thinks he has enough money. Your bias is clouding your judgement.

Obviously the "indirect" part of the post you are responding to applies. Your last sentence seems to indicate that you know more than us - if so, enlighten us please about the incentive situation of Mr. Altman. (Whose products I value quite a lot, I will say)

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/openai-ceo-sam-altman-didnt-...

This is public information.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#195
The era of remote work is not over. It’s just arrived. We overshot the equilibrium point by a lot during the pandemic height and that will regress back to something closer to long term trend.

No matter how much the HN crowd vociferously defends remote work, it’s simply an inferior mode of operation for many creative jobs.

People are not machines. We’re evolved to congregate and share space, to read body language, share meals, interact with zero latency.

Those things are valuable, and barring some huge leap in technology, we give them up when we go remote.

For some jobs and work cultures, those things don’t matter as much — those companies can self select into remote work and save on office costs.

But for American engineers especially, the more you encapsulate yourself into an interface of pull requests and slack messages, the more you’re handing power to corporations in the long run.

I can and have hired quality developers in EU, GB, and South America at heavily discounted rates because without an office, what’s the difference?

Even interviewing and managing people in Asia is much easier as a result of zoom, slack, figma, etc.

I find it so odd that American software engineers don’t see this. Time zone is not a moat, I promise you.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#197
post #56

I have noticed that senior employees, rather selfishly, advocate for full remote work. This robs junior people of valuable one on one mentorship and makes it extremely difficult to gain domain expertise and break into niche fields.

How does sharing a screen to look over code with a colleague meaningfully change in person? I don't see it.

That's troubleshooting really, not mentoring.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#198
post #153
post #56

I have noticed that senior employees, rather selfishly, advocate for full remote work. This robs junior people of valuable one on one mentorship and makes it extremely difficult to gain domain expertise and break into niche fields.

When I was an associate/junior I longed for remote work but seniors tried to keep me in the office as much as they could. Now that I am a senior I advocate for remote work to enable associates/juniors that want to work from home to do so. We have offices and whoever wants to do so can work from the office. Many associates/juniors use that opportunity but still the general consensus is that flexibility is the key here…

> flexibility is the key here

I'm not sure about this.

Flexibility brings uncertainty, and if you are not sure about who's going to be there in the office, there's not much value proposition to go and check.

If you know for sure that all/most people are going to be there, this equation changes considerably.

That being said, I think it makes sense to reduce physical presence to ~2-3 days a week, unless having two work environments is cumbersome.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#199
post #21

I assume he’s got either direct or indirect links to commercial realestate; as an owner or investor or something else. It makes literally 0 business sense to be forking out anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand per employee per month to give them a space to work, when that can just be avoided. The amount of cost and overheads involved; from insurance to upkeep to rent to OHS - a work space is probably the nex…

> I assume he’s got either direct or indirect links to commercial realestate; as an owner or investor or something else.

This isn't necessarily the case.

Most of the people calling for an end to remote work do not, I suspect, fall into this category—they're managers and execs of all kinds of companies.

What they get out of it isn't more money. It's more control. It's a return to a world where "verify by eye that the employee has their butt in their seat" is an acceptable method of "managing". It's a validation of their worldview that employees are all lazy slackers who are constantly looking for ways to defraud the company.

And underlying all of that, it's simply a return to the world they knew before. This new world, where workers get to work remotely and be responsible for themselves, is Different, and therefore Confusing and/or Scary.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#200
post #38

[flagged]

Ouch. What a horrid thing to see on HN from anyone about anyone. You can't post like this here, regardless of who you have a problem with.

As we have had to warn you about flamewar comments in the past and asked you refrain from personal attacks just a month ago, I've banned this account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457642 (April 2023)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29621470 (Dec 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28995867 (Oct 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23174566 (May 2020)

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

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