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Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

resilience.org

191–200 of 356 posts

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get to choose it either. It's what happens when money is power. If you want to fix it going forward, you've got to divorce the two.

If we have to divorce money and power in order to fix climate change then we are completely fucked

Yes, we definitely are.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#192
post #9

One eye-opening fact I recently learned is that fossil fuel infrastructure being built today is expected to have a three-decade lifespan, after completion of its construction. So every time you hear about a new pipeline, drilling project, or refinery being built you know that the people sitting in the rooms authorizing billions of dollars being allocated to the project all believe it will safely be operating and prod…

Do you believe we'll ever stop using fossil fuels in the "near" term? Just about every single product nowadays has some piece of plastic in it, including new EVs, which require fossil fuels to manufacture. There are plenty of lubricants to run the machinery in the factories that manufacture those products, including the renewable energy sources, which (again) require fossil fuels to manufacture.

Getting people to switch cars may be a part of reducing the dependency, but still contributes to the use. It'll be a long road that includes getting down to the minutia, like stopping girls from wearing makeup, before you can entirely remove fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels will not go away for at least a few more generations, because they are far too beneficial and there are no replacements for the myriad of uses they have today.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

500 million years is longer than the time it has taken to evolve mammalian life. Assuming that no other intelligent species would ever evolve is pretty crazy, it's only taken us 200 million years. If that's an average, we could be looking at 1 to 3 other intelligent species developing on this planet alone.

It has not taken 200m years. It has taken 4.2bn years. Every other species today has had the same 4.2bn years. In 4.2bn years, we’ve had one successful draw of a species with sufficient intelligence born into an environment with sufficient incentives to tackle this problem (that we know of). Saying another 1 will happen in time to thwart the pending extinction event strikes me as an aggressive gamble, let alone 3.

It has actually taken over 13 billion years if we're being pedantic. But that's not the point.

What we need to consider is the level of complexity life will be able to sustain after our annihilation. How long did it take to get to humanity from the last time life was at that level of complexity? Much less than 4.2bn years, since we likely will not be reducing life to the level of one single living cell.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#195
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we can't reach 1.5°C then we should try to reach 1.6°C. If we can't reach that then 1.7°C. Ultimately: It doesn't matter whether we can reach 1.5°C, because everything we try helps making things better. And any carbon sequestation technology will only help significantly after drastic emission cuts, not as a replacement for it.: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00953-x

Goals should be realistic. Aiming for 1.5C, then missing it and then continuously failing on 1.6C, 1.7C, 1.8C etc. is akin to a fat person missing their goal of 200lbs, and then telling themselves in front of the mirror every extra 10lb - "I'm going to stop eating junk food today! No, really, this is the day!" It's a cognitive failure to adequately process signals that the real physical world is sending to you. Or me…

Really, the goal needs to be to minimize it to whatever we can attain.

There's some really bad redline some place past 1.5C.

Putting the goal possibly to the right of that redline (and possibly blowing past it anyways) is not good.

1.5C is a decent benchmark because it lets us measure various scales of intervention against it.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#196
I never understood why this 1.5-2C global temperature is such a big issue when dinosaurs were living with average 15-20C Earth temperature and much higher CO2 levels (you can just google "world temperature history" or "co2 levels history". There were much more plants, diverse wildlife, etc. Having warm Earth is much better than having an Ice age, right? Also higher CO2 levels mean more ingridients for new trees/plants (eventually - food). I'm not trolling but really curious on this PoV and seems that the media is onesided on this topic (higher temperature / CO2 levels - bad and that's it). Noone is looking at it at a diferent angle.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#197
post #7

Most pressing issue in our futures

Futures? That's optimistic, it's affecting everyone already, right now. Droughts, food prices going up, heat records being broken. I mean personally it hits me in the wallet for groceries and having to make adjustments to my house (built for a cooler climate) to keep it comfortable, but that's probably a luxury position to be in compared to droughts, famines and forced relocation that millions of people are having.

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Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#198
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we can't reach 1.5°C then we should try to reach 1.6°C. If we can't reach that then 1.7°C. Ultimately: It doesn't matter whether we can reach 1.5°C, because everything we try helps making things better. And any carbon sequestation technology will only help significantly after drastic emission cuts, not as a replacement for it.: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00953-x

How about we aim for an achievable goal instead. What’s the point of setting ourselves up for failure? That’s part of effective goal setting. Anything else is fantasy and counterproductive.

Not sure why this is getting downvoted? He's right. The odds that global warming will stay below 1.5C are miniscule. I guess there may be PR benefits in pushing 1.5C because it's ambitious (shoot for the moon and land among the stars), but those PR benefits will be offset by the fact that anyone who does the tiniest bit of research will realize that it's bullshit! Not to mention that using 1.5C as a goal without lying is difficult.

"If we do we'll be able to stay under 1.5C" "If we don't do we won't be able to stay under 1.5C" "Our goal is to keep global warming under 1.5C" <- lie, a goal is by definition achievable and anyone who's giving statements on climate change knows that 1.5C is not achievable

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure it is arrogant. Arrogant would be saying we have some divine right or special capacity that places us at the center of this. I think we’ve gotten incredibly lucky in the last 600 years or so and have stumbled our way into a viable exit strategy for life on our planet. We don’t necessarily deserve this role. I think I’m well aligned that keeping life alive for the next few thousand years is absolutely nec…

Oh, I certainly disagree with people who put the environment above humans. But usually I just discount such people - they "are not serious people." > my friends adopt a “humans were a mistake” mindset over the past decade. This is an edgy take that I see increasingly adopted by young people in cities. Generally I try to recenter around "okay, if humans are a mistake, who would you like to kill first?" People find it…

To clarify; human are not part of the environment? What is setting us apart exactly ?

I suspect the fact that we use various tools. But at the end of the day we need food, light and water.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#200
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we can't reach 1.5°C then we should try to reach 1.6°C. If we can't reach that then 1.7°C. Ultimately: It doesn't matter whether we can reach 1.5°C, because everything we try helps making things better. And any carbon sequestation technology will only help significantly after drastic emission cuts, not as a replacement for it.: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00953-x

If we're already going to have to heavily adapt our living arrangements to account for extreme climate change, at what point does 0.1° not matter? 5.0° vs 5.1°? 10.0° vs 10.1°?

Just think of that 0.1C as an incremental step making even more of what's currently productive agricultural land, not. Can you give up a little more? Maybe... but not forever.
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