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Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

cnn.com

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Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#191

Post by localplume »

adventured wrote: post #54
_vbnz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it was shocking here in Stockholm when there were BLM protests in 2020. It's like people are more involved in US politics than their national politics.

Racism is at least as prevalent - and far more out-in-the-open - in Europe than in the US. There should be BLM or equivalent protests all over Europe, frankly. It's shocking how openly racist Europeans are (whether eg Italians about Africans, Germans about anyone, or Europeans routinely about gypsies). Ever gone on Reddit and looked at what Swedes say about refugees and immigrants (post ~2014 or so; in 2015 they were…

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Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#192

Post by pb7 »

hanniabu wrote: post #151
hanniabu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe racism isn't just a US thing

I'm amazed this is being downvoted. Do people really think that racism only exists in America?

Yes, many Europeans think that because they don’t talk about it and refuse to collect statistics to show it that racism doesn’t exist within their borders. Europe is just as, if not more, racist than the US. Just ask them what they think of the Roma people.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#193

Post by hunglee2 »

samus wrote: post #168
hunglee2 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes absolutely, 'Italian' is Florentine right? Same with modern French, which is basically Parisian, modern Spanish essentially Castillian. There is never an neutral language, it is linguistic supremacism one over the other. I absolutely respect Sicilians (and other regional groups) for resisting 'Florentine cultural imperialism'

It's considerably different in Italy since Florence never had any sort of political dominance over Italy. Even though it was very briefly formidable during the Renaissance, its influence has otherwise been mostly cultural only. Because of this, authors and scientists settled on a Koinè based on Florentine during the Renaissance. Until the 19th century, it was barely spoken, even in Tuscany.

very interesting. So perhaps Florentine was an example of a 'neutral' (or at least acceptable compromise) language to be used as the national language.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#194

Post by lm28469 »

seydor wrote: post #184
lm28469 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very limited definition of culture then I'd say the french protests are a good testament to the french culture being alive and kicking when basically every other country accept slaving their lives away until 67+

France also is the cradle of liberal economic ideas, its culture did not start in 1968. And let's face it, the protesters demand are not realistic, they are about kicking the can down the road a bit more before it explodes

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Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#195

Post by TulliusCicero »

hanniabu wrote: post #151
hanniabu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe racism isn't just a US thing

I'm amazed this is being downvoted. Do people really think that racism only exists in America?

Some European countries are behind the states on accepting that racism exists there, yes. E.g. in Germany there's still a very common attitude of, "well, we're not racist here" even as anyone with a non-German name and especially anyone not white struggles to rent an apartment. At this point in the US, acting like racism isn't a big deal or isn't common at all has become somewhat of a far-right position.

Now, in some ways the impact of racism is lesser in Europe, because there's less police violence generally and typically a much stronger social safety net.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#196

Post by detaro »

rcme wrote: post #183
dghughes wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have many French cultures in Canada besides Quebecois. There are Acadian people in The Maritimes they are not Quebecois many forced to flee to Louisiana and are called Cajuns. Non-Quebecois French people in Ontario and the prairies, plus Metis (French+First Nations) on the prairies too. Other distinct cultures in Canada would be Newfoundland a separate nation for years. Plus all the First Nations across Canada and…

And none of those cultures have cultures nearly as strong as the Quebecois, which is basically a global cultural brand at this point.

"global cultural brand" is a terrible way of measuring "strength" of a culture. (I'd hope for the people of Quebec that there is more to their culture than the brand, which is approximately "the weird Canadians that try to out-french the French")

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#197

Post by AHOHA »

And that’s coming from a language shares a lot with English language. I personally encourage that, I think English right now is taken for granted, when you are having an online discussion or writing a piece of article, you will be discouraged if you have some spelling errors or grammatical mistakes, even if obviously English isn’t your first, same with real life interactions, you will be discriminated against if you have an accent, either in meetings or public speaking. On the other hand, if you’re only trying to speak other languages while in their countries, even only some words let alone just an accent, you will get a lot encouraging responses and appreciation gestures.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#198

Post by sbaiddn »

Good. I hate reading Italian newspapers and seeing how many English words are used when perfectly well known Italian words exist.

How is it that I, an "Italian as a Third language" speaker, who only lived there for four years can immediately come up with the suitable, precise, and everyday Italian equivalent of an English word?

These folks are showing off that they speak [1] English to lord it over regular folk.

[1] typically very poorly. Italians are some of the worst English speakers in Europe.

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