Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

spectrum.ieee.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 218 posts

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#191

Post by DennisP »

entropicgravity wrote: post #189
DennisP wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are the specs on the Amprius silicon-anode battery, currently shipping in low volume: https://amprius.com/products/ That's better on all the metrics you listed except cost, which it doesn't mention. Whatever their current cost is, it should drop significantly once they complete their factory in 2025. https://amprius.com/facility/ Most of the battery is standard lithium-ion, the anode is a drop-in replacement.

These batteries will target the aviation market which will be willing to pay much more than the automotive segment. EV's need a certain weight for safety and once a battery pack goes lower than that weight the incentive for buying lighter batteries quickly fades.

Starting with aviation while they're at low volume makes sense. But most EVs weigh more than the equivalent gasoline cars, and have shorter range than many people are comfortable with, so I think there's plenty of opportunity for silicon-anode batteries in cars.

Personally I'd like to drive an EV 400 miles to visit my brother without stopping to charge, which realistically requires at least a 500-mile range, preferably 600 (so 80% to 20% is about 400). Charging time of less than ten minutes would make that less important to me, and conveniently, these batteries provide that too.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#192

Post by nordsieck »

entropicgravity wrote: post #190
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. I worked as a project engineer in a hydrogen fuel cell test lab for a few years. H2 is EXTREMELY hazardous. It can be ignited by a miniscule amount of energy (i.e. a tiny static spark will do it), and it has a very fast flame front, which creates an extremely energetic explosion. It's also the smallest molecule, so it's very difficult to prevent leakage, and it embrittles and degrades most steels over time. Addi…

All true. The real reason Toyota is interested in hydrogen is that it would maintain its current balance sheet. Hydrogen would allow Toyota to swap one messy, expensive, heavy power plant requiring lots of maintenance (ie fuel cell) for ICE technology. Whereas EV technology has almost no maintenance, a motor with one moving part and regenerative braking that means even the brakes last forever. The accountants at Toyo…

> Whereas EV technology has almost no maintenance, a motor with one moving part and regenerative braking that means even the brakes last forever. The accountants at Toyota would definitely frown at that.

That doesn't seem right.

Of all the major brands, Toyota (and Lexus) is the most reliable. They are the opposite of planned obsolescence - they work hard to make their cars last for a very long time.

I suppose in the short term, that's a downside for them, but in the long term, their reputation for being extremely reliable pays off in multiple ways - more demand, higher residual value, etc.

I have no idea why the Japanese auto makers chased hydrogen so hard, but there as to be some other reason. Otherwise we would have seen declining reliability in their gas lineup before now.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#193

Post by somewhat_drunk »

nordsieck wrote: post #192
entropicgravity wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true. The real reason Toyota is interested in hydrogen is that it would maintain its current balance sheet. Hydrogen would allow Toyota to swap one messy, expensive, heavy power plant requiring lots of maintenance (ie fuel cell) for ICE technology. Whereas EV technology has almost no maintenance, a motor with one moving part and regenerative braking that means even the brakes last forever. The accountants at Toyo…

> Whereas EV technology has almost no maintenance, a motor with one moving part and regenerative braking that means even the brakes last forever. The accountants at Toyota would definitely frown at that. That doesn't seem right. Of all the major brands, Toyota (and Lexus) is the most reliable. They are the opposite of planned obsolescence - they work hard to make their cars last for a very long time. I suppose in the…

Agreed. I think Toyota embraced H2 not because they wanted to replace a complex ICE with a complex PEMFC, but because a) Japan has no oil or mineral reserves to speak of, and b) when they started down that path, battery tech was woefully inadequate. Now that we've seen that batteries can power passenger vehicles just fine, I think Toyota and the Japanese government are both stubbornly engaging in the sunk cost fallacy.

But the writing's on the wall: H2 is dead tech for passenger vehicles.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#194

Post by _hypx »

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #131
greggsy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H2 has the benefit of being much easier to store, transport and transfer than batteries. It’s able to be stored in small containers and large vessels of any shape. Batteries manufacturing is much more complex. Electricity needs to be transferred from a power station over wires, while hydrogen can be pumped into a vehicle from a bulk source. Sure H2 is dangerous, but so is LNG, and petrol for that matter. 100+ years o…

Nah. I worked as a project engineer in a hydrogen fuel cell test lab for a few years. H2 is EXTREMELY hazardous. It can be ignited by a miniscule amount of energy (i.e. a tiny static spark will do it), and it has a very fast flame front, which creates an extremely energetic explosion. It's also the smallest molecule, so it's very difficult to prevent leakage, and it embrittles and degrades most steels over time. Addi…

This is total bullshit. Hydrogen is fundamentally necessary to a green economy. You literally couldn't reach zero emissions without it for industry and energy storage. Same is true of transportation in nearly every sector. People are only sorta excusing it for personal transport but only because rich people can make do with battery cars. But in reality, it's practically necessary for personal transportation too. Not everyone can recharge at home.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#195

Post by _hypx »

entropicgravity wrote: post #190
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. I worked as a project engineer in a hydrogen fuel cell test lab for a few years. H2 is EXTREMELY hazardous. It can be ignited by a miniscule amount of energy (i.e. a tiny static spark will do it), and it has a very fast flame front, which creates an extremely energetic explosion. It's also the smallest molecule, so it's very difficult to prevent leakage, and it embrittles and degrades most steels over time. Addi…

All true. The real reason Toyota is interested in hydrogen is that it would maintain its current balance sheet. Hydrogen would allow Toyota to swap one messy, expensive, heavy power plant requiring lots of maintenance (ie fuel cell) for ICE technology. Whereas EV technology has almost no maintenance, a motor with one moving part and regenerative braking that means even the brakes last forever. The accountants at Toyo…

This is also total bullshit. A fuel cell car is also an EV. Toyota is pursuing because it is the simply the better idea. People who repeat this bullshit are just brainwashed Tesla fans.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#196

Post by _hypx »

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #193
nordsieck wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas EV technology has almost no maintenance, a motor with one moving part and regenerative braking that means even the brakes last forever. The accountants at Toyota would definitely frown at that. That doesn't seem right. Of all the major brands, Toyota (and Lexus) is the most reliable. They are the opposite of planned obsolescence - they work hard to make their cars last for a very long time. I suppose in the…

Agreed. I think Toyota embraced H2 not because they wanted to replace a complex ICE with a complex PEMFC, but because a) Japan has no oil or mineral reserves to speak of, and b) when they started down that path, battery tech was woefully inadequate. Now that we've seen that batteries can power passenger vehicles just fine, I think Toyota and the Japanese government are both stubbornly engaging in the sunk cost fallac…

Wrong. All cars will eventually have to move to hydrogen. This is due to the unsustainability of battery cars. A lot of the anti-Japan rhetoric here is bordering on racism. They are actually planning ahead. Western carmakers are short-sighted and not thinking past the next few quarters.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#197

Post by somewhat_drunk »

_hypx wrote: post #196
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I think Toyota embraced H2 not because they wanted to replace a complex ICE with a complex PEMFC, but because a) Japan has no oil or mineral reserves to speak of, and b) when they started down that path, battery tech was woefully inadequate. Now that we've seen that batteries can power passenger vehicles just fine, I think Toyota and the Japanese government are both stubbornly engaging in the sunk cost fallac…

Wrong. All cars will eventually have to move to hydrogen. This is due to the unsustainability of battery cars. A lot of the anti-Japan rhetoric here is bordering on racism. They are actually planning ahead. Western carmakers are short-sighted and not thinking past the next few quarters.

Why is it so easy to spot the right winger these days?

Oh that's right, it's because you all parrot the same nonsense.

The valuable materials in EV batteries don't get used up - they're still in the battery, and can be recycled. We haven't figured out the particulars, but there's no reason why it can't be done. In fact, the biggest issue that battery recyclers are facing right now is a lack of batteries to recycle.

Stop swallowing propaganda wholesale. Start thinking for yourself.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#198

Post by somewhat_drunk »

_hypx wrote: post #194
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. I worked as a project engineer in a hydrogen fuel cell test lab for a few years. H2 is EXTREMELY hazardous. It can be ignited by a miniscule amount of energy (i.e. a tiny static spark will do it), and it has a very fast flame front, which creates an extremely energetic explosion. It's also the smallest molecule, so it's very difficult to prevent leakage, and it embrittles and degrades most steels over time. Addi…

This is total bullshit. Hydrogen is fundamentally necessary to a green economy. You literally couldn't reach zero emissions without it for industry and energy storage. Same is true of transportation in nearly every sector. People are only sorta excusing it for personal transport but only because rich people can make do with battery cars. But in reality, it's practically necessary for personal transportation too. Not…

Nothing I've said is bullshit, let alone the post in totality.

Feel free to point out a specific claim I've made that you believe is bullshit, and we'll proceed from there.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#199

Post by somewhat_drunk »

_hypx wrote: post #195
entropicgravity wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true. The real reason Toyota is interested in hydrogen is that it would maintain its current balance sheet. Hydrogen would allow Toyota to swap one messy, expensive, heavy power plant requiring lots of maintenance (ie fuel cell) for ICE technology. Whereas EV technology has almost no maintenance, a motor with one moving part and regenerative braking that means even the brakes last forever. The accountants at Toyo…

This is also total bullshit. A fuel cell car is also an EV . Toyota is pursuing because it is the simply the better idea. People who repeat this bullshit are just brainwashed Tesla fans.

If you have to resort to semantics in an argument to make your point, you've already lost.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#200

Post by _hypx »

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #197
_hypx wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. All cars will eventually have to move to hydrogen. This is due to the unsustainability of battery cars. A lot of the anti-Japan rhetoric here is bordering on racism. They are actually planning ahead. Western carmakers are short-sighted and not thinking past the next few quarters.

Why is it so easy to spot the right winger these days? Oh that's right, it's because you all parrot the same nonsense. The valuable materials in EV batteries don't get used up - they're still in the battery, and can be recycled. We haven't figured out the particulars, but there's no reason why it can't be done. In fact, the biggest issue that battery recyclers are facing right now is a lack of batteries to recycle. S…

And what is hydrogen but fuel made from water? Far less raw materials than could ever be achieved with batteries. And you'll never have to mine it even once.

Seriously, the battery people act exactly like climate change deniers. An entire argument based on denying or obfuscating the problem, and pretending nothing better could ever exist.

Seriously, your whole post is projection.

Post reply on HN