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Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

reuters.com

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Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#191

Post by matheusmoreira »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #129
iambateman wrote: post #115

Some here have said it’s the SEC who should have a more collaborative spirit. But all of their incentives, job descriptions, and reason to exist are to _enforce laws_ not be chummy with startup executives. The “mean” approach to securities enforcement is what we as a society need…there are far too many scams and people who run them, and those scams seem especially concentrated within the crypto world. After the blitz…

In the blog past Coinbase General Counsel asks for "guidance". The guidance for future "crypto entrepreneurs" is going to come from the outcomes of these enforcement actions. CryptoExpert: "We want guidance. We want regulation." SEC: "Your product/service is a security." CryptoExpert: "No it's not!" Damodoran called cryptocurrency "currency made by the paranoid for the paranoid." [paraphrase] Let's be honest, coopera…

> The "cryptocurrency" concept seems to be based on a mistrust of government-issued currency and a mistrust of government more generally.

It certainly was. Some coins like monero still are all about that. Most of the cryptocurrency space turned into stocks though. They even reinvented banks.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#192

Post by pavlov »

joefigura wrote: post #163
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the blog past Coinbase General Counsel asks for "guidance". The guidance for future "crypto entrepreneurs" is going to come from the outcomes of these enforcement actions. CryptoExpert: "We want guidance. We want regulation." SEC: "Your product/service is a security." CryptoExpert: "No it's not!" Damodoran called cryptocurrency "currency made by the paranoid for the paranoid." [paraphrase] Let's be honest, coopera…

It doesn't seem like the SEC has actually said what Coinbase is doing that is a security, or published regulations on how to determine which digital assets are securities and which are not "The SEC staff told us they have identified potential violations of securities law, but little more. We asked the SEC specifically to identify which assets on our platforms they believe may be securities, and they declined to do so…

Regulations and court precedents about what’s a security have been published since the 1930s. Lots of people have tried to work around it. Crypto isn’t the first attempt to create pseudo-securities where the layers of ownership and control are obfuscated. The rules aren’t really that complicated — it’s just that crypto people have a hard time facing the fact that practically everything in crypto meets the definition of a security.

Coinbase’s lawyers are paid to come up with a paradigm where the tokens on their platform can continue to be sold to retail with the implied benefits of a security (“buy token X and the awesome work of our team will make you money!”) while hopefully skirting the regulations. The SEC’s lawyers’ job is not to help them craft that.

It’s not like you can go to the police to repeatedly ask if your scheme to avoid the law is going to work this time. The IRS doesn’t offer that kind of tax avoidance planning feedback service either. If that’s what your business needs to operate, you’ll just have to trust your own lawyer about their interpretation of the law and why it doesn’t apply to you.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#193

Post by roenxi »

lelanthran wrote: post #154
thepasswordis wrote: post #148

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. > In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. > But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that…

He probably would. I have access to a bunch of good investment opportunities that US citizens don't have, because they are "protected" from accidentally making money. I have a stack of little pamphlets outlining interesting investment deals in Australia all labelled with "don't show this to anyone in the US, if you are a US person this isn't for you and we ask that you don't read it". This isn't crypto, only standard shares. Nothing fancy.

It is pretty stupid. Good for me, it means I don't have to compete against people with money, but it does showcase how crazy the policies are. It is, in some senses, as bad as the Chinese capital controls.

Bitcoin has outperformed a number of investments so far and has proven more reliable than, eg, some bonds by Credit Suisse. If people want to put money there it is passing tests of legitimacy right now. Outperforming the Swiss is a reasonable bar.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#194

Post by ALittleLight »

iambateman wrote: post #115

Some here have said it’s the SEC who should have a more collaborative spirit. But all of their incentives, job descriptions, and reason to exist are to _enforce laws_ not be chummy with startup executives. The “mean” approach to securities enforcement is what we as a society need…there are far too many scams and people who run them, and those scams seem especially concentrated within the crypto world. After the blitz…

We as a society need laws and regulations that can't be clearly articulated or explained by the agencies explicitly tasked with doing that?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#195

Post by libraryatnight »

ETH_start wrote: post #182
lottin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much protecting you, but ensuring a fair playing ground. If crypto is "finance", then it has to be subject to financial regulations.

There is no such law. Pokemon is no different than a digital token with respect to the applicability of securities law, the SEC's inconsistent treatment of the respective assets notwithstanding. And your argument begs the question of why any restrictions should be placed on people buying/selling financial products to regiment how they do it.

If you think any of this is analogous to a pokemon card or people collecting pokemon cards, your understanding of what is going on right now is pretty much useless.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#196

Post by libraryatnight »

thepasswordis wrote: post #148

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

I don't know, why is it? Are you sincerely confused and do you think any of the things you listed prior to buying crypto are at all the same thing?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#197

Post by mrtksn »

thepasswordis wrote: post #148

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

AFAIK horse races and slot machines are regulated, so they are required to operate within a framework. This "guarantees" that you are not investing your money on rigged horse games or on slot machines misrepresenting your odds of winning or outright lying to you.

IMHO the correct reaction to this should be to make regulation requirements accessible and manageable so that the overhead is not prohibitive to smaller entrepreneurs. No regulations will create lemon markets and lemon markets don't self correct because the people who turn in it into lemon markets can just walk away rich.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#198

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

joefigura wrote: post #163
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the blog past Coinbase General Counsel asks for "guidance". The guidance for future "crypto entrepreneurs" is going to come from the outcomes of these enforcement actions. CryptoExpert: "We want guidance. We want regulation." SEC: "Your product/service is a security." CryptoExpert: "No it's not!" Damodoran called cryptocurrency "currency made by the paranoid for the paranoid." [paraphrase] Let's be honest, coopera…

It doesn't seem like the SEC has actually said what Coinbase is doing that is a security, or published regulations on how to determine which digital assets are securities and which are not "The SEC staff told us they have identified potential violations of securities law, but little more. We asked the SEC specifically to identify which assets on our platforms they believe may be securities, and they declined to do so…

> It doesn't seem like the SEC has actually said what Coinbase is doing that is a security

According to Coinbase…

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#199

Post by [deleted] »

thepasswordis wrote: post #148

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#200

Post by robocat »

latchkey wrote: post #26
vyrotek wrote: post #9

Interesting coincidence. From yesterday: "Cathie Wood of ARKK sold 160,887 shares of Coinbase, COIN, today." https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/163833492762331136...

I don't know why you're getting downvoted, but this is massively relevant. She sold before anyone else knew this was coming.

Perhaps because at present we only know they sold ~2% of their stake. If they knew COIN was about to drop 15% to 20% (based on after market price) I would hope they would have sold off far more than 2%.
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