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Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

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Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but in turn when we do hear about the Indian contributions, we tend to think they were all Hindus, rather than recognizing the great contributions of the Buddhists at Nalanda. While Buddhism has little presence in India today, that's where it started.

Buddhists were the only folks who were building universities at the time Hindus didnt even have a school leave alone universities. The so called "Gurukul" has never been found at any archaeological site.

Ofcourse millions of Sanskrit manuscript were produced in fictional Gurukuls by fictional characters who never existed.

> The so called "Gurukul" has never been found at any archaeological site.

Chariot were considered fiction until they were not[0].

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakhigarhi&ved=2ahUKEwjwktvM...

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for To be blunt: Islamic invaders to the Indian subcontinent were by and large iconoclastic, at best intolerant and at worst genocidal (by forced conversions, marriages, outright murder, etc) of the native Dharmic (read: Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain) population, and burned down, looted, and deconstructed Hindu and Buddhist places of worship to constr…

Actually the most widespread form of Buddhism in India at the time was Theravada, and they dont worship gods like other religions do. Buddha vandana is not actual worship, because there is no concept of God in Buddhism, truth is the most basic tenet of Buddhism and God cannot be proven to be true. Same applies to Jains no concept of god. Buddhist Viharas and Mahaviharas (Universities) like Nalanda, Takshila, Vikram s…

Theravada was not the most widespread school at the time, nor were its doctrines yet systematised and formulated into the Vinaya and Abhidhamma the way it's read and practiced today until Buddhaghosa started his work on the Visuddhimagga... his teachings spread and took root in Sri Lanka and were spread to Myanmar, Thailand and parts of South East Asia including parts of Cambodia and Laos.

Theravada as a word itself is relatively new, as the schools at the time had derived from either the Sthavira or the Mahasamgha (Mahasamghika) traditions. Mahayana itself had its roots in Mahasamghika which had started evolving into Kukkutika and its companions and descendents, while the predecessor to Theravada itself was the Sthavira school which then evolved into the Sarvastivada, Puggalavada, Vibhajjavada and its descentants, one of which later evolved into Theravada.

At the time the more dominant schools of thought were the predecessors of what is now the Mahāyāna schools, some of which evolved later into the Tibetan Vajrayāna schools, and some went through the north west of India, through Gandhara and the Kusan empires into Central Asia, into China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and parts of Cambodia.

There are several academic works that clearly lay out the history and evolution of the Buddhist schools from verifiable sources. I'll update this if and when I get the time to look into my bookshelf later :)

However you are completely right about Buddha Vandanā. This is not worship. In fact there's no worship in the traditional Pāli canon, or the Tripitaka, and in fact Sakhyamuni himself advocated against forms of worship. In Buddhist schools the Vandanā and other forms of such processes are for showing respect to the Tri-Ratna, i.e., the teacher, the dhamma and the sangha, as a means to bring oneself into a conducive frame of mind, to develop the mind.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#193
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The India-Pakistan debacle today is an extension of a nearly millennium-long Hindu-Muslim feud. Not really. A lot of these arbitrary borders in modern times came about due to actions of former colonial powers. Prior to colonial times, there were many individual kingdoms/territories throughout the subcontinent. Other examples of arbitrary borders include the Durand line, and the Wakhan corridor.

> A lot of these arbitrary borders in modern times came about due to actions of former colonial powers. By 1940, Jinnah had come to believe that the Muslims of the subcontinent should have their own state to avoid the possible marginalised status they may gain in an independent Hindu–Muslim state. In that year, the Muslim League, led by Jinnah, passed the Lahore Resolution, demanding a separate nation for Indian Musl…

> an independent Hindu–Muslim state.

A single state spanning most of the Indian subcontinent wasn't a political reality prior to colonial times. There were many individual kingdoms and territories prior to that time. The political structure set up by the British was a major contributing factor behind the partition.

Another instance of a partition happened about 10 years prior to India's and Pakistan's independence. The British Raj decided to split Myanmar from India. Maybe if they had not done that, India would have extended further east to encompass present day Myanmar.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#194
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for To be blunt: Islamic invaders to the Indian subcontinent were by and large iconoclastic, at best intolerant and at worst genocidal (by forced conversions, marriages, outright murder, etc) of the native Dharmic (read: Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain) population, and burned down, looted, and deconstructed Hindu and Buddhist places of worship to constr…

> The Ayodhya mosque-temple riots are another facet of this clash. Western commentators glibly say 'Hindus are anti-Muslim'. The issue in India is so much more nuanced than that; there is bad blood on both sides going back a thousand years. Islam cannot escape from these charges: the religion is fundamentally intolerant of non-Abrahamic ones, especially ones with liberal iconography (like Hinduism and Buddhism). Bhak…

> Bhaktiyar Khilji burned down Nalanda University but there is a town (Bhaktiyarpur) nearby named after him! I guess this can happen only in India

No it is overall. A lot of criminals have street names named after them in the west.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#195
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for To be blunt: Islamic invaders to the Indian subcontinent were by and large iconoclastic, at best intolerant and at worst genocidal (by forced conversions, marriages, outright murder, etc) of the native Dharmic (read: Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain) population, and burned down, looted, and deconstructed Hindu and Buddhist places of worship to constr…

> The India-Pakistan debacle today is an extension of a nearly millennium-long Hindu-Muslim feud. Not really. A lot of these arbitrary borders in modern times came about due to actions of former colonial powers. Prior to colonial times, there were many individual kingdoms/territories throughout the subcontinent. Other examples of arbitrary borders include the Durand line, and the Wakhan corridor.

I'm not just talking about border disputes, and I don't make this connection lightly. Pakistan was explicitly founded as a country for 'Indian Muslims'. The 1971 war wasn't over a border dispute: West Pakistanis openly genocided and raped[1] Bengali Hindus (and Muslims, for that matter), declaring Bengali women 'war booty', which forced India to step in.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide

As for 'no united India before colonial times': what about the Maurya and Gupta empires, or even the Delhi and Hyderabad sultanates? They governed over a significant portion of modern-day India + Pakistan.

If this is your sort of goalpost, then even relatively homogenous countries like Germany and Italy shouldn't really exist today, given that they only coalesced in the late 19th century.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#197
post #114

I remember being taught in school about the important Muslim contributions to science, philosophy, and mathematics. It has been interesting to learn over time that much of this was inherited from Indian scientists, philosophers, and mathematicians (and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for).

Not only India, but Persia, countries in The Levant, North Africa and Mediterranean were highly developed before the advent of Islam (which originated amongst desert tribes). It is their knowledge which gave rise to the so called "Golden Age of Islam". Islamic conquest merely acted as a conduit for the spread of these ideas from one geographical region to another (a la the later Mongol Empire).

Basically nobody invents anything from scratch. It would be a pity if we have to rediscover everything all over again, every time there is a major change in a regions political order.

The modern USA is today a continuation of the Europe's printing press revolution.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#198
post #114

I remember being taught in school about the important Muslim contributions to science, philosophy, and mathematics. It has been interesting to learn over time that much of this was inherited from Indian scientists, philosophers, and mathematicians (and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for).

> It has been interesting to learn over time that much of this was inherited from Indian scientists, philosophers, and mathematicians (and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for).

This is a fairly standard line in the Indian middle class. However, apart from the decimal system none of the Arabic contributions are of Indian origin, and I am not aware of any philosophical ideas being borrowed at all.

For instance, the key contribution - the invention of algebra is clearly of Arabic origin by Al Khawrizmi.

This is a fairly comprehensive list of Arabic contributions. Which of these (apart from non fractional decimal systems) are if Indian origin? . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_in_the_medieval_Is...

Also, it would be helpful to clarify what was disquieting about the confirmed borrowed idea - the decimal system. Most of the time I only come across vague references with nothing concrete stated.

There is also a lot of speculation about ancient Indian mathematics being borrowed from Sumerian sources (where the first Pythagorean triples were observed etc)

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#199
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of these arbitrary borders in modern times came about due to actions of former colonial powers. By 1940, Jinnah had come to believe that the Muslims of the subcontinent should have their own state to avoid the possible marginalised status they may gain in an independent Hindu–Muslim state. In that year, the Muslim League, led by Jinnah, passed the Lahore Resolution, demanding a separate nation for Indian Musl…

> an independent Hindu–Muslim state. A single state spanning most of the Indian subcontinent wasn't a political reality prior to colonial times. There were many individual kingdoms and territories prior to that time. The political structure set up by the British was a major contributing factor behind the partition. Another instance of a partition happened about 10 years prior to India's and Pakistan's independence. T…

> A single state spanning most of the Indian subcontinent wasn't a political reality prior to colonial times. There were many individual kingdoms and territories prior to that time.

Never said it was. It came closest to the current boundaries under the Mauryan empire and Peshwai rule, however.

> The political structure set up by the British was a major contributing factor behind the partition.

Yes, the political structure that forced the majority of Muslims to vote for a separate Muslim state to be carved out of India. So sad, that the British did this to Indians. Without the British, there would be no enmity between the Hindus and Muslims. Truly a travesty.

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