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Learn Vim (2021)

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Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#191

Post by cess11 »

julesnp wrote: post #166
cess11 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What vim can do that emacs often is a little too slow for and IDE:s can't is to have finished even quite complicated incisions and changes to your text before you've become conscious that you asked it to do the thing. This means it can help keep out intrusions about editor maneuvering from your mind at work. Some people see no value to this and fill their vim bundle with plugins that slow everything down a lot, but s…

If you already have Caps Lock remapped to Control, why not just use Ctrl-[ to get back to normal mode? Ctrl-[ is the same keycode as escape in terminals, and it's much easier to reach. For me, remapping jk in insert mode results in lag after typing 'j'.

Keyboard layout, it would actually be Ctrl+Alt Gr+8.

That little lag on the j doesn't matter, when you notice you're already a few keys ahead anyway.

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#192

Post by lycopodiopsida »

blep-arsh wrote: post #178
antisceptic wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this attitude. It's clearly more conducive to solving problems to be able to move around our environment more quickly. It's extremely useful (compared to a beginner who only knows insert and write quit) to understand the different vim modalities as well as a few commands to jump around a file or to perform regex or to call an external command. When you're not proficient with the necessary tools, yo…

This is true for tools in general but I've managed to master vim to the point I can be somewhat productive yet it never feels quite ergonomic. Moreover, I think vim-like UI is holding everyone back nowadays. Learning all the intricacies of vim feels like an exercise in brute-forcing a deliberately user-hostile design. For example, is it really still OK to have little to no visual feedback when entering commands with…

> Vim's modal editing implementation also can't handle non-Latin keyboard layouts

This issue is solved by langmap.

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#193

Post by wooque »

antisceptic wrote: post #76
bee_rider wrote: post #65

I dunno, I never sat down to learn vim, just used it every day for a couple years. I’m not one of those wizards who is, like, answering stack overflow questions or writing wiki articles, but I get the job done. Is it necessary to learn Vim? Seems like a chore. Is the text editor really a bottleneck for anyone? I find that no matter how slow I type, I need to spend more time thinking of what to type anyway, if I’m doi…

I don't understand this attitude. It's clearly more conducive to solving problems to be able to move around our environment more quickly. It's extremely useful (compared to a beginner who only knows insert and write quit) to understand the different vim modalities as well as a few commands to jump around a file or to perform regex or to call an external command. When you're not proficient with the necessary tools, yo…

Best programmers I know don't use vim. If you feel bottleneck with your text editor you are working on wrong problems.

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#194

Post by MonkeyClub »

kamikazechaser wrote: post #159
HAL9000Ti wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think Linus Torvalds' typing speed is? https://youtu.be/S5S9LIT-hdc?t=3

Low 50 if we go by the video. He might obviously be in the 80+ range irl.

He’s also looking at the keyboard, so maybe he’s unfamiliar with it. Perhaps when shooting the video they thought, hey, we need that cool clicky sound, and had him use a mechanical keyboard.

But in all, he types fast enough to write Linux.

Typing speed is important for typists. For programmers, I’d say that even a 50-80 wpm rate is adequate for getting your thoughts down on the file and off to the compiler.

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#195

Post by noloblo »

bobbyskelton41 wrote: post #186
noloblo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the design goals of helix other than neovim in rust without all the original vi/neovim key bindings sans extension interface b

https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/blob/master/docs/visio...

Can they add backwards compatible to all vim key bindings then that gets very useful like neovim and unlike a vim like plug-in on vscode

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#196

Post by soitgoes511 »

zamnos wrote: post #115
cod1r wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like at a certain point of efficiency there are diminishing returns. A good analogy is typing speed. You don't need to have 200 wpm to be productive. Everybody adapts to how efficient they need to be at what they do. Vim is not a requirement for being productive. If it was, it would be the most popular editor. I also don't think the person you are replying to is saying that it isn't important to "master" your…

You don't need to hit 200 wpm but I haven't seen too many programmers who hunt-and-pecks at the keyboard and can't touch type. Even on a Qwerty keyboard you should be able to get high double digits, if not hit/exceed 100 wpm. The two sites I like for practice are: https://monkeytype.com/ https://play.typeracer.com/

I have to switch back and forth between french (azerty) and english (qwerty) many times a day. My typing speed has regressed. But I manage just fine without hitting 200 wpm. How does one practice the constant switiching?

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#197

Post by cbushko »

kzrdude wrote: post #185
cbushko wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple things: - Most distros seem to like wrapping functionality and having you use their own convenience functions to get things done. For example, for AstroVim, astrovim. is all over their config files. This is fine if you were a distro developer and you were trying to make things easy for yourself but I do not find it easier for the user when neovim already has simple lua based functions. It is anothe…

Thanks a lot. Maybe I'm starting to see what you are talking about. I have setup a working (?) lazyvim. Let's see where it goes. Some frustrations had to be overcome, most of them turning off unwanted functionality like autopairing parantheses, for example.. The custom notifications/popups also had to be disabled for now since they have some problems (cursor vanishes in light terminal? Important command outputs are o…

I disabled the checker on startup because that dialog was annoying me.

In /config/lazy.lua:

  checker = { enabled = false }, -- automatically check for plugin updates
I've never had a problem with the things you mentioned but the notifications are using either noice or notify. I think the submenu is sna

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#198

Post by Nginx487 »

I have a counterexample. One member of our team tried to adopt Vim as a primary development tool for Python projects, while rest of the team used products of JetBrains. On the course of two months he tried to set up all linters, static analyzers and refactoring tools to keep up with the rest of the team, being the most unproductive developer all this time. When it became clear it won't be better, he was asked not to play cool hacker and use appropriate tools to solve the problem. End of story.

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#199

Post by dmitriid »

jamal-kumar wrote: post #168
scotty79 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ctrl+G + line number Ctrl+F + what you are looking for PgUp PgDown plus visual scan Home, End, arrows (plus potentially control) for pinpointing the exact spot. Shift for block marking. Ctrl+C (or X), Ctrl+V for moving stuff around. No reason to touch mouse or learn cryptic shortcuts.

vim equivalents: 20g line number / find what you are looking for same for pgup and pgdown i think what you're describing sounds a bit like visual mode which is just v d and p for cut and paste if moving stuff around needs to be done (dd for whole line, 5dd for 5 lines, v and then j a few times in visual mode before d or y for yank (copy), etc...) Note how you don't have to strain your pinky to hit ctrl for any of the…

> Note how you don't have to strain your pinky to hit ctrl for any of these?

Note how insanely context-dependent all these are? How it's completely different commands for what is essentially the same operation?

Keys can be remapped (I have CapsLock mapped to Ctrl).

Re: Learn Vim (2021)

#200

Post by racked »

antisceptic wrote: post #76
bee_rider wrote: post #65

I dunno, I never sat down to learn vim, just used it every day for a couple years. I’m not one of those wizards who is, like, answering stack overflow questions or writing wiki articles, but I get the job done. Is it necessary to learn Vim? Seems like a chore. Is the text editor really a bottleneck for anyone? I find that no matter how slow I type, I need to spend more time thinking of what to type anyway, if I’m doi…

I don't understand this attitude. It's clearly more conducive to solving problems to be able to move around our environment more quickly. It's extremely useful (compared to a beginner who only knows insert and write quit) to understand the different vim modalities as well as a few commands to jump around a file or to perform regex or to call an external command. When you're not proficient with the necessary tools, yo…

If you're forced to work in the terminal, vim's great. But to get it to do something approximating an IDE, is it worth the time to tweak configs/plugins and memorize hotkeys, rather than just using a _real_ IDE?

Besides that, I just find the whole method of navigating (skipping words, skipping an X amount of lines) counterintuitive. It's nothing I can get used to, I will always miss the precision of just taking the mouse and getting the cursor exactly where I want it in one sweep and click.

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