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U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#191

Post by jgust »

bluGill wrote: post #123
jgust wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the theory behind "flex fuel" vehicles. In practice, the optimizations don't materialize in real world usage. This is likely because of safety factors built into the ECM preventing the engine from running enough timing advance to take advantage of the octane of a blended fuel.

The total amount you can get from changing the timing isn't very much. Even if you put in a whole new camshaft. Not to mention timing effects emissions as well. The more typical way to do this is have a turbocharger (supercharger... I can never remember the difference and which you want when). You and run more boost which increases the compression ratio. However this requires an expensive turbo and so isn't a popular…

Exactly. More ICE cars are coming standard with turbochargers which would enable more to take advantage of the extra octane, but it's an optimization problem with constraints: fuel efficiency, reliability, drive-ability, emissions to name a few.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#192

Post by LanceH »

duped wrote: post #136
jfengel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corn farmers from Iowa. Where they hold the first caucus of the interminable election season. No American politician or political party can afford to offend corn farmers. We should count ourselves lucky that our gasoline is only 10% corn.

Just because it was a plot point on the West Wing in 2006 doesn't make it reality. Iowa is not a kingmaker, and it's not even the first state in the primary season for Democrats anymore. It's really just more mundane: BigAg is powerful and our representatives take their money.

I think the democratic party is upset that everyone wasn't going along with the superdelegates who really have the first votes. They want to choose their candidate and go through the motions of a primary.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#193

Post by gruez »

Scoundreller wrote: post #173
specialp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is competitive demand with food supply but that is the point. If we did not have surplus corn produced, the USA would be very vulnerable to food disruptions. Because as we saw during COVID, business supply chains are only optimized to current demand without disaster. So if there is another channel to purchase corn it creates more demand and keeps excess production going at a price that is still possible to prod…

> If the USA suddenly had a food crisis, the ethanol production could be stopped. Could it? 99% of corn grown (including that used for ethanol) isn’t the sweet corn for eatin. Would take a while to switch and I’m guessing there isn’t much excess capacity for turning it all into corn syrup and such. COVID couldn’t even figure out how to redirect institutional toilet paper into consumer toilet paper. And that’s the sam…

>COVID couldn’t even figure out how to redirect institutional toilet paper into consumer toilet paper. And that’s the same product!

Did the TP "shortage" actually get bad enough that a non-negligible portion of the population had nothing to wipe their bums with? Regardless, starving is much more dire than having nothing to wipe with. If people were actually starving, I'm sure they would have no issues eating field corn intended for animal consumption.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#194

Post by Scoundreller »

staringback wrote: post #180
greedo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethanol gas is terrible for most car engines and fuel systems.

source: trust me bro

Now, let me tell you about the harms of seed oils on your engine

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#195

Post by scotuswroteus »

koolba wrote: post #69
labrador wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which is why the Democratic Party changed it under cover of starting with "a more diverse state" Iowa no longer first; Democrats reorder the presidential primary calendar for 2024 https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2022/1...

> which is why the Democratic Party changed it under cover of starting with "a more diverse state" It wasn’t because they care about offending farmers or removing ethanol subsidies, it was so that Biden can lock down some early primary wins in 2024 with States with a higher percentage of black voters.

why not both?

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#196

Post by mgkimsal »

mgkimsal wrote: post #48
fetus8 wrote: post #6

And it generally gets much worse MPG compared to regular gasoline!

I've been tracking my flex-fuel usage - mostly E85 fillips - for a while now, tracking price and MPG. At least with the prices I've been getting, I typically get around 15% less MPG, but the price is between 10-15% cheaper. My 'cents per mile' price has generally remained the same over the last year or so I've been tracking (been tracking longer than a year, but have been using E85 more regularly in the last year). N…

Can't edit now, so I'll add.

With my typical city/town driving, I get 32-35 mpg with 87 octane, and typically 26-30 with E85.

Regular 87 octane is $3.12 around me here, and E85 is $2.71. E85 works out around 12% cheaper.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#197

Post by RobAtticus »

Name_Chawps wrote: post #183
dragonwriter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2024 changes, inasmuch as they are about specific elections and not the general long-term arc of the party, are about 2028 more than 2024. No one is expecting a significantly contested nominating contest when the party has an incumbent President seeking reelection.

The prediction markets on PredictIt have the Democrats winning at 52 cents, and the Republicans at 50 cents. You should expect the election to be quite close.

dragonwriter was talking about the Democratic primary.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#198

Post by culopatin »

bluGill wrote: post #112
xen2xen1 wrote: post #101

So "oil and water don't mix", as is often said. Oil/ gas with corn based additives DO mix with water, so it cannot be piped through a pipeline, thus making it be carried totally by truck, and making it's carbon footprint even worse.

It cannot be put in existing pipelines. You can build a whole new pipeline that will carry ethanol. Nobody wants to invest that much money.

For 10% replacement? Not worth it.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#199

Post by dragontamer »

Of course its Dr. Lark again. He's been contradicting USDA for years.

There's something like 12+ PH.ds who are working in this field and create papers consistently. 11 of them agree, and then Dr. Lark comes out and disagrees.

Every couple of years, Dr. Lark comes out with a new set of studies that contradicts everyone else. And then the news organizations / hacker news around here focuses on what Dr. Lark says rather than what the other 11 guys say.

----------

I don't necessarily want to demean Dr. Lark or his work. But people need to have context here. This guy is anti-Biofuel, and has been since the early 00s (maybe earlier).

I'm not 100% sure what to do about this problem per se. Contrarian professors are important parts of the scientific process. Someone like Dr. Lark is very important to making sure that everyone's i's are dotted and t's are crossed.

But the general "media" picks up on the contrarian, and uses that as "Entire field is wrong, everybody is wrong" and shouts it from the rooftops. Rather than... you know... rightfully pointing out that they're focused on the contrarian.

--------------

We need contrarians like Dr. Lark. But we don't need media overly focusing upon contrarians and highlighting their specific research as if its the mainstream in the field.

See yall in 2 years when Dr. Lark publishes another contradictory paper, like he always does.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#200

Post by GeekyBear »

labrador wrote: post #62
jfengel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corn farmers from Iowa. Where they hold the first caucus of the interminable election season. No American politician or political party can afford to offend corn farmers. We should count ourselves lucky that our gasoline is only 10% corn.

which is why the Democratic Party changed it under cover of starting with "a more diverse state" Iowa no longer first; Democrats reorder the presidential primary calendar for 2024 https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2022/1...

> which is why the Democratic Party changed it

I think that has more to do with getting away from Iowa and New Hampshire since those states have shown a surprising level of support for candidates outside of the preferred establishment picks.

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