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Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

economist.com

191–200 of 320 posts

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#191
post #114
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polio isn't eliminated though. Measles especially is nuts to skip. We don't vaccinate for smallpox because it has been eliminated.

And if you're in the military you do get vaccinated for smallpox still.

I'm guessing that's specifically to deal with the possibility of bio-warfare?

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#192
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

Code overzealousness isn't the issue... it's months-long delays in permitting & rampant understaffing of city inspectors that are required to inspect every little thing causing construction to start & stop every 2-3 days.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#193
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

Code overzealousness isn't the issue... it's months-long delays in permitting & rampant understaffing of city inspectors that are required to inspect every little thing causing construction to start & stop every 2-3 days.

[deleted]

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#194
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way you're getting a new box, meter, and service wire for $2k anywhere in the US. Certainly not California. Plus, lots of places require these to be buried. So you've got trenching costs and that's a pain too. $20k is definitely within the ballpark of a cost.

Did mine last year for $1200... and I had new grounds installed for that price too. But yes, it was above ground. But my point is, if someone need to do all of these things, it's for a reason. And these tasks aren't "upgrade a circuit", they're, "upgrade my home's electrical service"

Like I said, it's a spiral. You have a moldy bathroom and they make you get a car charger, which is a new circuit, which changes the load calculation, which changes your service needs, which changes your box requirements. Strict adherence to code has a way of making costs explode.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same applies to fire codes. As someone who has been close to almost-tragedies caused by fires, can you give me examples where fire codes are over-zealous? I've had family almost getting killed, even though they did follow the fire codes - the didn't even get a fine or a case against them. If you ask me, the fire codes were not strict enough in that instance.

> can you give me examples where fire codes are over-zealous? There's a small movement to eradicate the requirement for midrise buildings to have 2 stairways. Advocates point to European regulations and claim that a single stairway is just as safe as 2. Double stairways, they say, makes construction more expensive and results in awkward, undesirable apartment layouts. https://slate.com/business/2021/12/staircases-flo…

Maybe they could just put a fire pole or a rope on the other end.

It may not be as ideal as stairs, but if it's a backup option you'd think that'd be much less costly while still allowing at least a majority of people to escape.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#196
post #25

> In nearby Erzin county, however, not a single building collapsed. The local mayor and his predecessor told local media that they did not allow any illegal construction. Both used the same phrase: “My conscience is clear.” That mayor, Ökkeş Elmasoğlu, should perhaps run for president.

I sent that to one of my Turkish friends and replied with this:

And the funny thing (not funny but ironic maybe) is it seems people didn't like that mayor and were irritated sometime because "he was always too much by the book." Now I'm sure the people of that town are grateful to have a mayor like that.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#197
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

Since I live in the Bay Area which does have earthquakes, we have very strict building codes. Your water heater has to be secured to the wall, as one simple example, and I've personally heard of houses catching fire because of the water heater falling over. That said: there are always "grandfathered" buildings which were built before the latest codes; unreinforced masonry, for example. What politician wants to tell t…

> I wonder how many of the buildings in Turkey were built before earthquake-proofing was required?

I'm no expert, but when I was in Turkey in 2010 I took pictures of soft clay hollow bricks that were being used in new construction for the bulk of the building. You've likely seen pictures of similar bricks as they are used all over the world, but they are as fragile as eggshells.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#198
post #126
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

> Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. > Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead. Some of the rules are, but some of the rules aren't. When code calls for a maximum distance between…

> When code calls for a maximum distance between electrical outlets, that's partially for convenience, and partly because of unsafe practices with extension cords, so there's some blood there, but if you miss the mark by a foot, it's not disasterous.

I mean, it could be disastrous, couldn't it? That foot could be the threshold of someone saying "Aw screw it, I'll just use my parent's frayed extension cord from the 70s."

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#199
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's so frustrating I feel the same way developing software - the only thing that ever matters, and has ever mattered (at least since I started developing software in 1992) is "meeting the date". Whatever corners can be cut to make the date are cut, and then the thing breaks in fairly predictable ways because corners were cut. It's maddeningly infuriating and I'm not even dealing with people's lives here. I can't e…

Not sure what you are equating this to in software, but if it is security vulnerabilities, incompetence has probably more to do with it than time pressure. It takes about the time to write a parametrised query than to concatenate your strings.

I disagree. Yes, a lot of them are caused by incompetence to some extent but we should use processes where the harm of incompetence is limited and where we take quality and security seriously. Blaming it on individual incompetent developers is unhelpful when the industry allows this and encourages it since it increases the short term output of new features.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#200
I was just a teenager during 1988 Armenian earthquake that leveled entirety of city of Stepanakert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Armenian_earthquake) but I remember one of the most damning pictures on the TV and newspapers (even in USSR!) was a huge piece of load-bearing concrete from the collapsed panel building with "БРАК" (FAULTY or didn't pass QA) written on it in black marker/spray paint. Yet it was still used in the building. That earthquake was a significant part of political instability that contributed to USSR demise.
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