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Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

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Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#191

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

tptacek wrote: post #54
JohnFen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective Altruism is just a modern iteration of a thing that's been around for a very long time. The fundamental idea is sound. However, in practice, it all-too-easily devolves into something really terrible. Especially once people start down the path of thinking the needs of today aren't as important as the needs of a hypothetical future population. Personally, I started "tithing" when my first business was a succe…

I never give to any group that asks me for money. Far be it from me to second-guess anybody's giving (motes and beams and all that) but this rules out many of the most effective aid organizations, all of which are absolutely off-the-charts obnoxious about fundraising --- because it works.

I distinctly remember signing up to give £5 a month to a charity on the condition that if they ever contacted me again asking me for more money I'd immediately cancel my Direct Debit. They didn't even get their second payment.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#192

Post by munificent »

scarmig wrote: post #109
teraflop wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded of a fascinating series of Reddit threads, starting back in 2009, from somebody who convinced himself he "could handle anything once" and decided to try heroin, only to rapidly spiral out of control: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wef6...

The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake. Particularly, here, I don't think people are at risk of serious withdrawal after only two weeks of heroin use. Though heroin use is obviously one of the dumbest things anyone can do.

>* The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake.*

Maybe, but if so, it's a fake narrative they've maintained consistently for over a decade:

https://www.reddit.com/user/SpontaneousH/

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#193

Post by munificent »

YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #191
tptacek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never give to any group that asks me for money. Far be it from me to second-guess anybody's giving (motes and beams and all that) but this rules out many of the most effective aid organizations, all of which are absolutely off-the-charts obnoxious about fundraising --- because it works.

I distinctly remember signing up to give £5 a month to a charity on the condition that if they ever contacted me again asking me for more money I'd immediately cancel my Direct Debit. They didn't even get their second payment.

Honestly, the £5 a month you were giving them is probably less than the cost of special casing you in their largely automated donor marketing systems so this is a net win to both of you.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#194

Post by grafporno »

atdrummond wrote: post #135
scarmig wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake. Particularly, here, I don't think people are at risk of serious withdrawal after only two weeks of heroin use. Though heroin use is obviously one of the dumbest things anyone can do.

As someone who has used opiates for well over a decade (for medical reasons), heroin and stronger synthetic opioids can absolutely cause an opioid naive individual to have withdrawal symptoms after even a week. This is why codeine OTC recommends no more than three consecutive days of use.

Wait, you've got over-the-counter opiates in the US (I assume it's the US)? What?

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#195

Post by munificent »

walleeee wrote: post #95
yamtaddle wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to see an argument for colonizing Mars for this purpose, that wouldn't be a better argument if the goal were instead "build robust, distributed bunkers on earth, and pay families to live in them part-time so there's always someone there". Cheaper, and more effective. Most plausible post-apocalyptic Earths would be far easier to live on than Mars. The remaining threats that wouldn't also be pretty likely to t…

> Most plausible post-apocalyptic Earths would be far easier to live on than Mars. thank you how are we supposed to build a second home on a dead, ruthlessly hostile planet until we demonstrate ourselves capable of stabilizing the biosphere and building a sustainable long-term civilization here Earth is easy mode compared to Mars

Agreed 1000000% and this argument bugs the fuck out of me.

If we can't successfully terraform Earth how the fuck are we going to terraform Mars?

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#196

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #39
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we not talk ourselves into believing into stuff? Should smart people specifically avoid changing their beliefs out of fear of "justify all kinds of terrible things"? It's simple really: just be skeptical of your own reasoning because you're aware of your own biases and fallibility. Be a good scientist and be open to being wrong. > So you don't trust donating money to food banks or malaria nets because "don't…

>It's simple really: just be skeptical of your own reasoning because you're aware of your own biases and fallibility. Be a good scientist and be open to being wrong. This just seems like a generic advice to me which is theoretically applicable to everyone. Is there any evidence of effective altruists not doing that, or this being specifically a problem with "really-smart-person"s? >No, they don't trust that you can s…

[deleted]

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#197

Post by [deleted] »

jfengel wrote: post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

[deleted]

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#198

Post by thot_experiment »

theragra wrote: post #15

If there are less cases of abuse than among generic populace, it is weird to blame the movement. From the article, it is hard to understand that EA is somehow worse than most of the USA. Also, arguments for polyamory are just that, arguments. You certainly can press someone into it, but from the article, the impression that it is more like persuasion. Regarding cult dynamics - any tight knit community feels like this…

Having been part of the rat/EA community in the bay area for over a decade I can 100% confirm that the incidence of weird sex stuff happening is far far above of the baseline I've experienced with other groups of people, and i tend to keep odd company.

Not some sort of scientific study but also the only set of people where I've been casually asked if I wanted a prostate massage at a house party. The norms around here just hit different.

I'm not mad about it, and I think I've personally never felt harassed and in general there seems to be a very explicit consent culture, but also weird sex stuff is so normalized that it must be easier for bad actors, especially clever ones to get away with abusive behavior.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#199

Post by kazinator »

jfengel wrote: post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

[flagged]

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#200

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

tptacek wrote: post #54
JohnFen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective Altruism is just a modern iteration of a thing that's been around for a very long time. The fundamental idea is sound. However, in practice, it all-too-easily devolves into something really terrible. Especially once people start down the path of thinking the needs of today aren't as important as the needs of a hypothetical future population. Personally, I started "tithing" when my first business was a succe…

I never give to any group that asks me for money. Far be it from me to second-guess anybody's giving (motes and beams and all that) but this rules out many of the most effective aid organizations, all of which are absolutely off-the-charts obnoxious about fundraising --- because it works.

The first point was:

I always give to a local group who directly helps people and who is typically overlooked for charitable giving. I get to know the group pretty well first.

So maybe they are specifically looking for grass roots organisations that do good work but are less able to find raise.

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