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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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191–200 of 378 posts

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#191
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re adding Fentanyl to everything now. I have Burning Man-adjacent friends who take ecstasy once a year at festivals, and they’re terrified of getting a tainted dose. This affects many more people than just those addicted to opiates.

I think this highlights the importance of addressing the _why_ even more. Most people are terrified of accidental fentanyl exposure. Some people seek it out. Why is that?

> Some people seek it out.

who's seeking it out? The article doesn't mention it, and the parent poster explicitly say that people are NOT seeking it out.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#192

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

Usually the "society" issue is framed as some sort of welfare crisis. I have a more-than-one-hand-full of friends and acquaintances from earlier in life who ruined or ended their life with drugs. And so I don't know anything statistically, but I have seen what caused the people near me to fall into it, and it wasn't some welfare crisis.

The number 1 reason I experienced is because some social circles fetishized it. It was a very cool, tough, and a superior lifestyle. Anyone who didn't do drugs was a loser, drugs were for winners.

When there is a strong cultural-current of this attitude, it can draw people in and ruin their lives by the time they realize it's all wrong.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#193

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY.

Drugs get you high. Ants get drunk, goats chase psychedelic lichen, and dolphins pass around puffer fish like a dutchie.

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine

The short term benefits always outweigh the short term costs, but we're moving to a point in history where even it even seemingly outweighs the long term costs. There's no real disincentive anymore.

I think a case can be made that Martin vs. Boise had the most to do with this. That ruling was meant to push cities into creating the necessary facilities and number of beds to correctly address their homelessness problem; instead, it seems that many cities have used it as a way to entirely ignore the issue.

Instead of building the facilities, they're just throwing up their hands and allowing the kind of "public camping" that quickly turns into public open-air drug markets. Unsurprisingly, the population and markets grew.

> A lot more empowering than just "submit to a higher power" which is clearly not working for the majority of users.

The twelve steps are about quite a bit more than "just" that. They're also targeted towards a person that is at a specific stage of addiction _and_ willingness to address it. It's not general purpose and you can't force people into it, particularly when their drug of choice is so easily available and socially acceptable.

You have to reduce the inflow of drugs. You have to stop drug markets from forming. You have to convince addicts to seek treatment.

On the last point, I think the most effective strategy would be confiscation. If you are caught with drugs for personal use, they should be taken and destroyed, and you should be given information and transportation to a treatment center if you desire. Otherwise, you should be free to go. If the state doesn't interject itself at some level then I don't think you stand a chance.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#194
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legalize everything and produce it pharmaceutically, and this problems pretty much disappears.

>produce it pharmaceutically They are... in Mexico... with expert training from China...

With no consequences for chemically altering their products... or getting people killed...

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#195
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on your point of confusion? The mechanism of action was explained in the article.

That's strange that they describe the selling point as being that you can't get high anymore. If it's really attacking and neutralizing the chemical per se, and if it's truly neutralized in every way, that would mean it would stop overdoses. That seems like a much bigger selling point.

Exactly. Hard to treat someone who is dead

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#196

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

I'm homeless and living in the Tenderloin in San Francisco. People here want you to - Be in a gang (or a prostitute, thief, ex-con and so forth) - Be on drugs (or in rehab for drugs) - Have a mental illness (so you can go to therapy) - Be disabled - Find religion There isn't a position for "I ran out of money and my family wouldn't support me, and at some point finding web development work became too hard as the tech…

You've explained this much more clearly than I've seen done before. Maybe because I hear my voice in yours.

Skip the web dev and be a writer. Surely other HNers can hire patientplatypus for this?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#197
post #192

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

Usually the "society" issue is framed as some sort of welfare crisis. I have a more-than-one-hand-full of friends and acquaintances from earlier in life who ruined or ended their life with drugs. And so I don't know anything statistically, but I have seen what caused the people near me to fall into it, and it wasn't some welfare crisis. The number 1 reason I experienced is because some social circles fetishized it. I…

I've seen some of this as well, though through my own anecdotal experience people in my life I've seen struggle with drugs do or did so because:

1. Ongoing health issues they can't afford to resolve. Chronic pain. Mental health issues. Sleep disorders.

or

2. Inability to cope with high levels of stress due to financial insecurity, bad relationships, or loneliness.

I think the cultural attitudes you describe may have some relation to other problems. Most people I've encountered seek escapism when their life experience is poor and they're unable to change their circumstances or unaware of ways to change their circumstances.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#198

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine?

I don't do powders, opioids, etc but I do have some friends within tech and the festival scene that do. My observation is that most people that die from fentanyl don't know they're taking it. They think they're doing cocaine, ketamine, heroin, or some other substance. Fentanyl presence is usually a case of cross contamination when the particular substance is being cut at each hierarchial level of the drug food chain. That's not to say that there isn't some small subset of dealers who don't purposefully drop in some fentanyl, but largely that'd be a stupid decision. The users life expectancy shrinks and their risks skyrocket when they come in contact with fentanyl, this is known.

If you want to stop the deaths, then you have to allow drug distribution that comes from clean rooms. At present, everyone should be using test kits, but fentanyl in particular is hard to test for because a single grain hiding in a mound can get and overdose a user.

If you want people to stop using drugs, well, I have less to say. The history of humanity is using intoxicants whether it be for recreation, psychological well-being, or medical necessity. We've only recently in the history of humanity gone on moral crusades to villainize it.

Chemically addictive substances are a little more challenging. Things like heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine aren't drugs you can benefit from, but people still do them. Largely, it's because they got hooked on pain killers or some other "numbing" medication. Better availability to harm reduction resources, therapy, social safety nets, etc would improve metrics across the board in the chemically addictive substances category.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#199
post #42

[flagged]

You are correct, and I'm surprised at the backlash. Nearly all of the illegal fentanyl in the country has an origin in China, when captured and traced. Personally, it doesn't surprise me, as I imagine it's China getting back at the West over the Opium Wars. As horrible as it is, there is a certain amount of logic to the act, especially if considered from the perspective of societal scale destabilization. The US has d…

You make good points. It would be interesting to compare the rate of fentanyl fatalities inside China to countries across the ocean where you have that extra layer of challenges getting the illegal precursor chemicals over oceans, across borders etc.

What is astonishing to me is the almost seeming complete apathy on this problem within the US. An average of 300 deaths a day you would have thought would be elevated to the highest level. I mean, for example, why would you allow a country that is facilitating this kind of carnage to run their social media businesses within your borders?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#200
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re adding Fentanyl to everything now. I have Burning Man-adjacent friends who take ecstasy once a year at festivals, and they’re terrified of getting a tainted dose. This affects many more people than just those addicted to opiates.

I think this highlights the importance of addressing the _why_ even more. Most people are terrified of accidental fentanyl exposure. Some people seek it out. Why is that?

Why some people try it out is different than why people keep using it. Why people try it out can range from getting addicted after being prescribed something legal to wanting to escape life. Why people keep seeking it out/why they are addicted is hard to rationalize and understand and is like answering the question why do people like sex? You can't peer into your own mind, determine how its working and how you can manually change it. After addiction there usually needs to be some adverse event or events where people realize that the pain is greater than the pleasure, but there are still other people where even majorly adverse events don't change their rationale. Why people use fentanyl over other opiates is kind of simple. It is cheaper than everything else, there is a high supply of it, and it is stronger than everything else.
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