Earlier quoted context omitted.
The act of planning will make you feel better. Once you start believing that you have options, the stress reduces tremendously. There’s a site called interviewing.io or something like that (I have no articulation, I stumbled on it a couple weeks ago), and you can pay $100 or something to have an hour and a half interview with some FAANG engineer on whatever topics you want. The point is that there are resources all o…
"turns out I’m horrible at suicide!" Ouch, I am not sure if you meant it like this, but please don't take it as more proof of how you failed. You did not. Your remaining desire to live was just stronger, otherwise you surely would be dead. So please live this life, because you want to, not because you have to. All the best! Edit: And screw those performance based love idiots, they didn't know better and you had no al…
Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
191–200 of 224 posts
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#192Second, please don't play your life on hard mode, utilize the resources the humanity has for getting out of this hole:
* Therapists are walking knowledge bases which have studied all the ways people are driven into awful states, and can help you understand both why you got there, how you got there, and where you need to go to get out of there faster.
Not using therapy = wasting time on reinventing the wheel to arrive at the same answers by trial and error years later.
* Coaching augments therapy by helping you set specific goals, and helping you get there. Therapy helps you understand what to do, coaching is about doing it.
* Psychiatry augments therapy by giving you access to tools beyond what you already use go get you into a state where you are able to actually do the changes in your life that are necessary to get out of the hole.
People use and abuse caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sugar drinks, weed, etc. to cope with unbearable situations and/or get the kick to get going, often with detrimental health effects.
We can do better than that. Modern psychiatrist is 99% a potion expert, who can guide you to finding the right potion tailor-made for your specific type and state of mind.
Psychiatry alone won't solve your problems, just like getting a rifle isn't going to win the battle. You've got to actually use it. But having one helps a ton.
As humans, we are similar in many ways. The problems you just wrote about are shared and experienced by many among us, as are the solutions.
Going at it alone is like going into a battlefield before stopping by the armory and getting your mission briefing.
You may get out, but the statistical casualty rate indicates that it isn't a solid idea.
To that end, analogies:
* Therapy = strategic command
* Coaching = tactical planning
* Psychiatry = getting your kit
Or, if you are more fantasy inclined:
* Therapist = spell master
* Coach = swords master
* Physiatrist = potion master
Your job is one of your mental health battlefields. Going unarmed and unprepared when you're losing hit points is not going to help you beat the odds.
Personally, I can attest that I couldn't make the jump the OP did without all three backing me up.
The silver lining was that all three were provided as a part of the benefits package. For anyone in the same boat:
* Therapy was listed as "free counseling sessions"
* Taking time off to take SSRIs and let them kick into gear was under "short term disability"
These words are deliberately off-putting so that people are discouraged from getting what they pay for. In particular, short-term disability package is an insurance, and if you're at a point where your productivity drops, it applies.
It doesn't mean you are disabled. What it means is that whenever a doctor can vouch that your performance is negatively affected by health reasons, whether it's a broken leg or severe anxiety, to the point where you're struggling to meet expectations, the time off you take to get treatment is going to be reimbursed by the insurance you already paid for, up to three months in CA, and this can't be held against you.
That's to say, they can't use that as a reason to fire you.
Unlike whatever assignments you half-ass while being miserable and not getting help.
Reminder: for software engineering, most common mental health issues will generally fulfil the requirements necessary to get a short-term disability leave approved, as our work is mental work.
Note: looking for a different job during your leave is explicitly OK, so if you find yourself in OP's shoes, find a psychiatrist who will do the short-term disability paperwork. It's a simple, short form.
Note 2: y'all be thinking "it's not that bad" — it is that bad. I've been there, and I lied to myself too.
Do NOT let yourself get to the point where you're contemplating suicide, like OP, or having suicidal/self-harm ideation, like me (i.e. you don't have plans, but the idea starts to seem appealing). If you don't feel revulsion at the thought of suicide or self-harm, WAKE UP CALL: seek out ye potion master.
Here's another reframing that can help you get over the internalized stigma:
* Short-term disability leave = prepaid sabbatical
Remember, STD leave — if available — is an insurance that comes as a part of your benefits package, i.e. out of your compensation.
You not only deserve it, it benefits your employer for you to make use of it before it gets real bad. To them, it's fleet maintenance. Y'all are money-making vehicles, your brains are engines, so take time off to change that timing belt before it snaps and renders the entire machine unusable (and unprofitable).
Taking advantage of these resources is conspicuously missing from OP's account, so I hope this will be of use to others.
To the OP: you are out of the toxic quagmire, but the very same resources can significantly speed up recovery, increase your productivity and boost both your career and your utility to your employer.
If you aren't using these resources already, do that. If benefits don't offer them, online counseling like BetterHelp / Cerebral / etc. is an affordable out-of-pocket option.
And all those who aren't in the hole now: find out what resources are available now, before you need them. Burnout is very common in our field, so it's best to be prepared.
----
It's dangerous to go alone, take these:
* Therapy/counseling = strategy
* Coaching = tactics
* Psychiatry = ammo
* STD leave = ceasefire
More so if you already paid for all of those as a part of comp.
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#193I had a job at Apple for two years, which paid very well and had very good stock grants, but I absolutely hated. I hated most (not all) of my managers, I didn't really enjoy the work, and my team in particular would routinely have meetings until 9pm, multiple times a week. I would sign off from my computer, and lie down on my bed nearly catatonic because I was so unhappy, to a point where my wife was getting a bit wo…
Sounds very similar to my early 2020 - mid 2022. Got a "dream role" at Apple that utilized my niche expertise, was assigned to a high-value component of a high-impact project that sounded like a perfect fit. 2022 comes around and we have a barely functional prototype that was initially due to be shipped in mid 2021, constant turn-over in software engineering and product management, the front-end that had been build d…
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#194Having nothing to do at work is its own form of torture. If you have to be available and connected, or much worse - physically in the office, for the full normal work day, it is torture. Once you've gone through the ceremony of getting ready for work, commuting, and being the building.. you might as well have something to do. Another a second form of torture in this category is being treated like your app/role is bei…
> Having nothing to do at work is its own form of torture. If you have to be available and connected, or much worse - physically in the office, for the full normal work day, it is torture. Once you've gone through the ceremony of getting ready for work, commuting, and being the building.. you might as well have something to do. This is 100% true. And the main reason is probably the fact you can never really focus on…
However, no-showing, visibly walking in hours late or leaving hours early, being unresponsive on slack/email are easily observed and the type of things that stick out to accelerate your being fired.
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#195Thank you for sharing. I can relate. This is my first “real” full time job, and I’ve now been there 10 years with little to show for it, and not for lack of trying. Software engineer for a small company, report directly to the owners. Repeatedly, I pour my heart and soul into a project that I believe in, only for ownership to trash the project for superficial reasons. I’ll do small things and get overly patronizing p…
Ten years? If you can stick it out in that environment for that long then you have the backbone to handle all sorts of things - move on! When I'm in a horrid environment I dig deep to last just two years. I ran from my last place after one year, and lasting that long took some serious effort.
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#196There are a lot of notions in common culture that's outright misleading.
For eg. Time is NOT money. It's way more than that.There are higher order exchanges than money: time, energy, identity.
The best criteria for the next move is not necessarily the absence of anxiety but rather more aliveness. We keep chasing happiness not realizing, it can only ensue, not pursued.
Sorry if it sounded cliched...looking back there were a bunch of frameworks that became obvious in hindsight...I wrote about them...you might resonate with some of them:
https://www.leadingsapiens.com/essential-career-change-frame...
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#197This is 100% why we need a strong social safety net and/or UBI in the USA. Imagine if you could just quit a job like this, take a few months off, and start looking for a new job, without worrying about becoming bankrupt or homeless? The economy would thrive as individuals were free to move about the labor market, take time off to re-skill periodically, etc. I was in a bad situation in a job, completely burned out. It…
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#198I used to work at FB, without going into too much detail I crossed path with a super toxic colleague that started harassing me from day one as I realize they were forging user feedback on a feature we were working on and left me with a bomb to defuse. This person realized I noticed and immediately started undermining me and reporting me to HR. After months of battle I finally was able to prove my case, the person got…
I ran into a guy in the early part of my job at a company several years ago. We had a 30 minute discussion about how to collaborate. By the end he was screaming at me.
I realized there was something deeply wrong. I realized he was completely incompetent in his job and was very threatened by being “exposed” by having someone like me (knows the market) enter his space.
He then started spreading rumors about me and trying to humiliate me in public. He screwed up and dropped the ball on a major deal I referred to him worth millions.
I was so fed up with him I told him exactly what I thought of him. He escalated it to Hr and it blew up hilariously in his face.
Incompetent people are the most dangerous and nasty people, and most vindictive. You have to be so careful.
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not move on? I know that right now the economy is not exactly in a good shape, but what you are going through right now is worse.
Obviously overcoming the inertia to leetcode a while and go through the interview ringer on top of everything else that's going on in their life is WAY harder than just.. rolling out of bed whenever and logging on until the end of the day.
Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave
#200It was border line toxic environment. So many new folks were getting hired and being shoe horned into random things.
My manager was new and a bit biased. Kinda racist who assumed white = smart, not so white = not so smart.
Both my grandfathers had passed from Covid after a few months. I was really depressed.
I felt suicidal sometimes. Left a few months after and never felt better.
Have no equity, but no amount of money is worth tolerating passive racism.