Musk said in a Q&A recently that Tesla will need to start its own mining and refining ops to support battery production
Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
191–200 of 413 posts
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
The form factor of a motorbike has been around and more affordable than a car for a century now. I don't think it's the type of engine that makes the majority of people in the developed world prefer to spend substantially more money on vehicles which are considerably more stable and crash resistant, enclosed from the weather and with room for passengers and cargo. If they get e-bikes, they tend to get them as well wh…
> living in a country with one of the densest (but still entirely unsuitable for most long distance journeys) rail networks I'm very curious, what country has such a dense rail network that isn't very good for long distance journeys? Is it because it's in a hub-and-spoke system with the capital/largest city as the hub, and if you want to go from spoke to spoke it sucks?
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Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's your justification for saying that it's the US with a profoundly distorted market and not places like Utrecht?
How about the fact that America's most walkable and transit-accessible neighborhoods are also the most expensive and highest demand? People want this kind of development, they flock to it, and they are willing to pay astronomically high prices to get it. The government keeps the supply low with exclusionary zoning that makes all types of construction except car-centric single family housing illegal.
> How about the fact that America's most walkable and transit-accessible neighborhoods are also the most expensive and highest demand?
I'm not entirely sure that correlation implies causation in this case.
Do most people move to cities specifically because they're somewhat walkable with good public transportation, or do people move to cities for other reasons such as more access to better paying jobs?
Would people in cities rather drive to work if it was possible rather than taking a chance every day that the people next to them on the bus/train weren't some strange/risky people?
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
The market is profoundly distorted by single use zoning, parking minimums, density maximums, wide (and high speed) stroads, and other urban design choices that force long journeys. It's also not safe to be on an ebike surrounded by electric Hummers, F-350 super duties, and your normal "whole kindergarten class in the blind spot" Escalades. Having just spent a week in Utrecht it's very clear that "the market" can cert…
What's your justification for saying that it's the US with a profoundly distorted market and not places like Utrecht?
I don't think I said that. All places people live, aside from frontiers, have rules applied to them and those rules affect how people get around. The Netherlands has different rules than the US, and within that framework the market (I didn't say the word free) shows a preference for ebikes.
Similarly, when I lived in the US I had to go 1.1 miles to the nearest coffee shop (or shop of any sort), and opening a coffee shop in my neighbourhood would have been illegal, and shut down very quickly. And that wasn't even all that far from the downtown of a medium-sized city (Sacramento).
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that's necessary to provide incentives for people to spread the load over the whole day. Otherwise everyone would pile into the same trains during the middle of the day instead.
Nobody is saying it’s unreasonable. Just that there remains a valid justification for owning a car. Not driving it everywhere, all the time. But having one.
I don’t really agree with that. If driving 7+ people is something you do every day, sure. But for the vast majority of people, there is no valid reason whatsoever.
I’ve never owned a car, and stopped during the middle of my driving lessons because I didn’t see the purpose in it. That was 10 years ago, and I’ve moved halfway across the country, traveled a lot, never had a car, and overall I spend significantly less on travel than the friends who do own cars (while traveling more comfortably)
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about the fact that America's most walkable and transit-accessible neighborhoods are also the most expensive and highest demand? People want this kind of development, they flock to it, and they are willing to pay astronomically high prices to get it. The government keeps the supply low with exclusionary zoning that makes all types of construction except car-centric single family housing illegal.
> How about the fact that America's most walkable and transit-accessible neighborhoods are also the most expensive and highest demand? I'm not entirely sure that correlation implies causation in this case. Do most people move to cities specifically because they're somewhat walkable with good public transportation, or do people move to cities for other reasons such as more access to better paying jobs? Would people in…
There are as many reasons for moving as there are people. I lived in Berkeley even when my job was in Newark because I hated the idea of living in a parking lot with a mayor (credit to Ghost Ride the Volvo's apt description of Fremont)
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
> living in a country with one of the densest (but still entirely unsuitable for most long distance journeys) rail networks I'm very curious, what country has such a dense rail network that isn't very good for long distance journeys? Is it because it's in a hub-and-spoke system with the capital/largest city as the hub, and if you want to go from spoke to spoke it sucks?
The UK. Lines interconnect all over. But that doesn't mean connections are possible when you want them and don't involve time padding and risk of not making them and sometimes completely illogical routes, and even with one of the world's highest densities of stations many places people want to go to don't have a station particularly nearby or a last mile solution that isn't a taxi. And no matter how good the end-to-e…
Please don't conflate British Rail mismanagement with "trains are bad". Your trains are bad. America's trains are bad. They don't have to be.
There is a disconnect here with you replying to someone who was talking about the ideal, with your reality. No one is saying train systems in a lot of places, right now, are perfect. We can make them more perfect in addition to moving more freight onto rail, doing more last-mile deliveries on e-cargo bikes, and making it reasonable for people to replace more or most of their sub-5km car trips with a bicycle. Not only is that possible, but it's necessary to approach that ideal.
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about the fact that America's most walkable and transit-accessible neighborhoods are also the most expensive and highest demand? People want this kind of development, they flock to it, and they are willing to pay astronomically high prices to get it. The government keeps the supply low with exclusionary zoning that makes all types of construction except car-centric single family housing illegal.
You have evidence of that claim? I took a look around me. The most expensive and highest demand areas are actually not transit accessible at all and walking is not really feasible as the houses have lots of land and are very spread out. I am in the Sacramento area for reference.
Yes, Granite Bay is a great place to keep your sports car collection, but places in Sacramento where you can walk and bike command a premium compared similar places without the same walkability.
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#199This article and the IEA sources that they rely on assumes that an EV is a car. That’s not a good assumption: electric bicycles and trikes like the Aptera are much better direction for the vast majority of individual transport. At that size, you can rely on smaller batteries and solar panels for many journeys (it isn’t fully sufficient for an Aptera but an e-bicycle with a small roof can ride as long as the Sun shine…
> electric bicycles and trikes like the Aptera are much better direction for the vast majority of individual transport.
If it doesn't ever get hot or cold where you live, or ever really rain, then yes. If an ebike works 90% of the time, then I'm getting the car. Might still get the bike, but I also have to have the car, and that will take just as much battery material as if I drive it 100% of the time.
Re: Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric vehicles?
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
The market is profoundly distorted by single use zoning, parking minimums, density maximums, wide (and high speed) stroads, and other urban design choices that force long journeys. It's also not safe to be on an ebike surrounded by electric Hummers, F-350 super duties, and your normal "whole kindergarten class in the blind spot" Escalades. Having just spent a week in Utrecht it's very clear that "the market" can cert…
>The market is profoundly distorted by single use zoning, parking minimums, density maximums None of which they have in the developing world yet those nations become wealthier people buy cars basically as soon as they can make the economics pencil out. People like to sit in expensive four wheeled air-conditioned boxes more than they like the alternatives.
Cars are a great way to show you've become wealthy until everyone has one and suddenly driving isn't as pleasant. The developing world (vague terminology there, though - would somewhere like Bangkok count?) tends to have mediocre transport and no infrastructure to stop drivers from killing people riding bikes or walking.