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Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

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Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#191

Post by richardfey »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #105
whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Really? I think this was extremely predictable. This is implementing the GDPR according to the spirit of the law. That is, to make personal information a liability. The other shoe was always going to drop. Any other interpretation including just slapping an "I agree to have my data collected" dialog on top of your product and proceeding as though the law didn't exist has been naively optimistic wishful thinking from…

I don't understand this "free-rider" depiction of Europe, it sounds to me like a delusional and superficial classification. Can someone please explain the rational observations behind it, if any?

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#192

Post by [deleted] »

astrange wrote: post #188
jdiez17 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This decision, as I understand it, renders large swathes of tech service revenue models untenable. To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation (without explicit consent [0]), it forces companies to 1) innovate in order to offer such services for a sustainable price, and 2) encourages competition fro…

I agree that if anytime anyone came up with a business model you banned it, that would produce more innovation in business models. But you also wouldn’t get any of the products because you’ve banned all of them. So it seems like a bad way to run an economic bloc. The EU in particular doesn’t even know what they’re doing and none of their poorly drafted “blue is green now because I said so” laws even work. You just ge…

[deleted]

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#193

Post by [deleted] »

wccrawford wrote: post #169
britneybitch wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Child labor laws and minimum wage also made some revenue models untenable, and the world is better off for it. I want to live in a world where businesses can profit without having to spy on people. This is a good step in that direction.

I think their point wasn't the regulations, but the unpredictability of those regulations. It's hard to start a business if you're worried the rug will be pulled out from under you at some point in the future.

[deleted]

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#194

Post by Nextgrid »

astrange wrote: post #188
jdiez17 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This decision, as I understand it, renders large swathes of tech service revenue models untenable. To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation (without explicit consent [0]), it forces companies to 1) innovate in order to offer such services for a sustainable price, and 2) encourages competition fro…

I agree that if anytime anyone came up with a business model you banned it, that would produce more innovation in business models. But you also wouldn’t get any of the products because you’ve banned all of them. So it seems like a bad way to run an economic bloc. The EU in particular doesn’t even know what they’re doing and none of their poorly drafted “blue is green now because I said so” laws even work. You just ge…

The cookie banners are a result of bad/non-existent enforcement. The GDPR actually makes 90% of them illegal. Enforcement appears to be slowly ramping up.

> The value you get from Facebook is the ads are relevant

If this was true, this ruling would be a nothingburger because everyone would voluntarily opt into the targeted advertising so they can get all that "value" you're speaking of.

In reality though the value people get from Facebook is being able to keep in touch with their friends or content that interests them. The ads are just pollution. I think we used to call this "spam" in the past. The ruling now at least allows people to deny spammers usage of their personal data for the purposes of targeting said spam.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#195

Post by mpweiher »

whimsicalism wrote: post #154
cwkoss wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link those numerous studies, sounds like BS

https://mises.org/wire/poor-us-are-richer-middle-class-much-... Here's one analysis, but there are others. I would prefer a less conservative source.

That's not an analysis, that's a polemic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mises_Institute

Even if they got the numbers right, which I doubt, they completely miss that US income has to pay for a lot more than in most of Europe, healthcare and education just as the most prominent examples, also lack of public transit etc.

And of course anyone who has ever lived both in the US and in one or more European countries knows that this "analysis" is BS.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#196

Post by whimsicalism »

owlglass wrote: post #189
whimsicalism wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://mises.org/wire/poor-us-are-richer-middle-class-much-... Here's one analysis, but there are others. I would prefer a less conservative source.

When the Mises Institute publishes articles arguing that "drunk drivers cause accidents but so do sober drivers, and many drunk drivers cause no accidents at all," and therefore drunk driving should not be outlawed, it's hard to take this type of source seriously [1]. Note that the article above was published by the institute's founder. [1] https://mises.org/library/legalize-drunk-driving

I hear what you are saying, although I would prefer an engagement on the merits of the specific points.

That said, it is of course possible I overstated my case - the provenance of sources I am finding is not as strong as I would have expected.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#197

Post by mpweiher »

whimsicalism wrote: post #182
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because someone has more material items than you doesn't mean your life is worse or that you are poor. Poverty isn't about how little you have to others - its about being able to provide and sustain yourself and your family in society. As far as I understand it, poverty is much less now than 100 years ago.

Let's see how people would vote/poll on the option of having fewer material items & goods. Generally I find this rhetoric is popular when people are making decisions for other people rather than those people articulating their desires.

Wrong.

For example, I voted with my feet. I used to live in the US, but I moved (back) to Germany, because despite the fact that I could make tons more in the Bay Area, my standard of living is much higher here.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#198

Post by astrange »

e_i_pi_2 wrote: post #161
quotemstr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation Is it right that a tiny but loud minority be able to ban these ad-supported services for all of society? Going by revealed preferences, most people don't consider targeting advertising to be "spying and psychological manipulation". If they did, usage patte…

> Going by revealed preferences, most people don't consider targeting advertising to be "spying and psychological manipulation". If they did, usage patters would differ. By this logic most people don't actually believe cigarettes are harmful, if they did then usage patterns would differ

Nicotine is actually very effective for schizophrenics, works better than most of the actual medicines. It’s the smoking part that’s bad for you.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#199

Post by jefftk »

pif wrote: post #167
jefftk wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be totally fine with a regulation where they had to ask before using personal data to show ads. The overreach is that the GDPR requires that the user be able to say "no" but still use the service -- you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting ads, and you can't require users to pay instead.

> you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting ads Edited for you: you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting personalized ads

Possibly: it's not fully clear yet whether the GDPR requires you to offer people the opportunity to use your site without ad fraud detection, but I'm expecting it turns out it does. And without ad fraud detection ad-supported sites are mostly not practical.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#200

Post by EForEndeavour »

Nextgrid wrote: post #150
thehappypm wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the “yes” button was easier to click than the “no” button 90% of people would.

Thankfully the GDPR mandates that the "accept" option can't be more prominent than the "decline" one.

The endless barrage of insipid GDPR cookie consent banners have corrected a weird English-language blind spot I had: it turns out that the opposite of "accept" is not "reject," but rather "customize settings" or "view preferences."
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