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Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

191–200 of 504 posts

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just accept the collateral damage of never answering calls. Traditional telephone service is dead to anyone under 40.

This. Snail mail is so overloaded with spam it might as well be the same. The fact two fundamental and official mass communication channels are functionally useless is a sign of the rot in our country. Email is teetering on the void. Chat is balkanized and siloed, same with social media, unlike telephony there is no source monopoly or tradition of cross standards. Txt is the last bastion. It'll die in the next decade…

SMS has hung on for three reasons:

1. Reading a message is low-obligation compared to answering a phone or taking physical mail out of a box.

2. A shorter message has less room to both contain a scam and a cover story. Necessarily, either the payload or the cover story or both are thinner in an SMS message than a scam email.

3. But most importantly, social customs around text messages conversations are different from phone etiquette: besides being unauthenticated, caller-id came after decades of being expected to answer the phone without knowing who was calling or why.

A stranger sending a legitimate but unexpected text message feels obligated to explain WTF they're contacting you. "You don't know me, but..." Scammers, on the other hand, are trying to bypass this. "Oh, you know me."

Tying into point #2, a low-data channel like an SMS conversation is a high-context interaction. Have you ever gone back and read old SMS conversations and noticed a difference between the richness of your memory of the interaction and the sparseness of what the text actually said?

(Google search results pull the quote, "Generally, high-context cultures prefer oral communications, while low-context cultures favor written communications." My thesis is the telephone is a technology that turns oral communication into a low-context activity, and SMS is a technology that turned textual communication into a high-context activity. It's not impossible but more difficult for untargeted scams to go unnoticed in a high context channel.)

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#192
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they can't. The scammers will just hire a random person from indeed/monster/whatever, ship them a SIM box and tell them to fill it with prepaids.

Couldn't this be fixed by restricting international roaming of US SIMs into countries with high rates of call scams?

Nothing says that they cannot put the SIM box in e.g. the US or Canada. It does not have to be in India.

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#193

It's mind-boggling that the United States allows this kind of thing to happen. In the EU I get maybe one spam call every couple of months. From the stories you hear from Americans on HN, Americans get multiple spam/scam calls a day, and the vast majority of their inbound calls are spam/scams. What is going wrong in the US that isn't going wrong in the EU? Language barrier? Regulatory capture?

Well. The UK is not immune to spam calls. Here is a YouTube video of hacker going after a call centre that was targeting the UK. They were making millions of dollars per year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyEoOfSECp0

Indian knows english. It's hard to target non-english speakers.

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telco's could put a stop to this if they really wanted to. Start with disabling number spoofing for international calls, if the number presented isn't in the country of origin then reject the connection request. Another choke point is the gift card system.

Edit: I was thinking of a totally different gift card scam. Whoops Gift cards should require some amount of destruction in order to get to the actual barcode… something to make tampering obvious. The same way clothes have a little ink exploder the clerk removes… just a quick easy step that is destructive to the packaging… but still presentable when you give it to someone

They already do? Usually I see gift cards packaged in a sealed paper envelope that and the redemption code itself is covered up with tamper evident paint.

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#195

It's mind-boggling that the United States allows this kind of thing to happen. In the EU I get maybe one spam call every couple of months. From the stories you hear from Americans on HN, Americans get multiple spam/scam calls a day, and the vast majority of their inbound calls are spam/scams. What is going wrong in the US that isn't going wrong in the EU? Language barrier? Regulatory capture?

Same reason the U.S. allows all other sorts of privacy invasion like the White-Pages-like search sites that will gladly share ( for free ) your past 11 something U.S. mailing addresses you've resided at, the names, ages & addresses of your family members & a whole host of other information ( you may have to pay for this bit ). All you need is someone's First & Last name. Even the U.S. state is not really needed.

The reason being someone is reaping massive benefits from whatever loophole allows for this kind of data collection & is shoring up initiatives so that loophole isn't plugged.

Now try the same search with a U.K. resident or E.U. resident you know of. I'd say you will have a markedly tougher time gaining access to similar information, with just a few clicks & without ever pulling out your credit card. I have no clue if U.K. is similarly compromised off late but a few years ago ( prior to Brexit ) it was not the case.

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#196
post #26

Rather than "caused by illegal Indian call centres in 2022", wouldn't it be more accurate to say "Indian industrial-scale criminal scam operations"?

Operating in collusion with American carriers who don't try to identify and block these operations because they get paid on a per-call basis?

I suppose it's not that easy. They can use international VOIP providers to route their calls, maybe even run their own, rotating the numbers they use and disguising the actual origin. If that wouldn't work you could probably hire people in other countries to put some agent software on something like a smart phone and use these.

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#197
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telco's could put a stop to this if they really wanted to. Start with disabling number spoofing for international calls, if the number presented isn't in the country of origin then reject the connection request. Another choke point is the gift card system.

No they can't. The scammers will just hire a random person from indeed/monster/whatever, ship them a SIM box and tell them to fill it with prepaids.

There's no reason consumer SIMs should be able to call more than N distinct numbers in any 24h period. You can implement reasonable rate limits to prevent abuse.

However, even if we assume that SIM boxes are a magic solution to carrier interventions, that still raises the cost from the current status-quo. Implement enough of these barriers and the entire scam operation becomes unprofitable and no longer worthwhile.

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#198
It's not just India.

The rise in the random texts (which end up pushing investment scams) also originates in off shore call centers in Southeast Asia.

Often times they get migrant workers with promises of jobs, but then take their passport and force them into years of repaying for their relocation fees.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62792875

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#199
I built telecommunications systems / software for some time. The unfortunate truth here is that telecom carriers absolutely already have everything they need to largely put a stop to it but they knowingly ignore it. It's the biggest problem in the US because because of pricing. It's expensive to run outbound campaigns in almost any other country, and very cheap in the US (fractions of a penny per minute compared to 5-10c per minute in some EU locations). Scammers need volume to make money.

The reason carriers -- from the local exchange carriers and up -- ignore it is because just a single scam operation can mean 10s of thousands of dollars in volume a month, and sometimes more. Since they have to self-report for the most part they're not very incentivized to stop it. There are a few easy to implement regulatory / technical mechanisms that could nearly axe all of it, but carriers push back hard on those regulations and they never stick.

I know from experience dealing with this that it's absolutely not ignorance that's at play on the regulatory and commercial side. It's disgusting, and as fueled with greed and red tape as you'd fear.

Re: Americans duped into losing $10B by illegal Indian call centres in 2022: report

#200
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds an attack on the people of India for something a private company is doing. I also don't think the US has jurisdiction there, so I'd much rather see an investment in education or public infrastructure to help with it. If this was similar to the Russia stuff where the goal was to affect the election and was sponsored by the govt then sanctions kinda make sense, but this is a problem of international communi…

> That sounds an attack on the people of India for something a private company is doing. It's the responsibility of the Indian government to police what happens within its borders. The Indian government has turned blind eye to scammers in their country targeting the US, they're effectively endorsing it. Why should the US continue to do business with a country that leeches off of the US citizenry? Historically, the US…

I don't agree with the Russian sanctions, you're doing collective punishment on a population of people, many of whom presumably don't even support the war. It may be an effective strategy but that alone doesn't justify it
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