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New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

bbc.com

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Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#191

Post by beambot »

slj wrote: post #157
beambot wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They trust technocratic experts to know what's best for people. And implement. I think reasonable people could object to Australia's internet censorship laws, COVID response, climate activities, etc. There's a big difference between being an expert & representing the will of the people (aka policy).

I’m a resident of Melbourne, in the state of Victoria, which had the longest pandemic lockdown in the world AFAIK. It certainly was at the time the lockdown ended, at least. Victoria recently had an election wherein the government which was responsible for implementing the lockdown was re-elected. Notably, the state government’s pandemic response was dictated by facts, indeed the chief health officer responsible for…

It should go without saying: voter preferences seldomly condense down to a single issue. A party gaining or retaining power doesn't mean broad support or opposition on a single issue.

Again: technology or science experts deal with facts (or implications of setting policy), not setting policy or the will of the people. As an example: COVID can & did kill people, but where to set the threshold for acceptable mortality is a policy issue that is orthogonal. Not dissimilar to actuarial accounting.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#192

Post by tuatoru »

ipnon wrote: post #90
petodo wrote: post #79

As nonsmoker I'm strongly against this, when did alcohol prohibition, war on drugs or their COVID restrictions worked? You will just anger people and it seems completely unnecessary considering there is steady decline in smokers and there are surely more dangerous issues to deal with, in case of NZ it would be pandemic of obesity.

Assisted suicide is legal in New Zealand. What if I want to smoke myself to death? Absolutism from the state is so noxious. Make cigarettes prohibitively expensive and difficult to acquire sure. But complete prohibition is an infringement on our natural right to decide what to consume.

What if you want to blow yourself up with a hand grenade? Not allowed. Or crash a light plane into a building? Not allowed either. Or infect yourself with smallpox? Not allowed.

The absolutism here doesn't sit with the NZ government.

Politicians generally reflect their societies' attitudes. (In the US in the past, too, before the Citizen's United decision.)

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#193

Post by mancerayder »

slj wrote: post #157
beambot wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They trust technocratic experts to know what's best for people. And implement. I think reasonable people could object to Australia's internet censorship laws, COVID response, climate activities, etc. There's a big difference between being an expert & representing the will of the people (aka policy).

I’m a resident of Melbourne, in the state of Victoria, which had the longest pandemic lockdown in the world AFAIK. It certainly was at the time the lockdown ended, at least. Victoria recently had an election wherein the government which was responsible for implementing the lockdown was re-elected. Notably, the state government’s pandemic response was dictated by facts, indeed the chief health officer responsible for…

>Notably, the state government’s pandemic response was dictated by facts, indeed the chief health officer responsible

Dictated by culture. To say that everyone else was dictated by things-that-weren't-empirical is nothing short of a naive reading of how laws and social policy are set. There are values.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#195

Post by tuatoru »

zeveb wrote: post #162
megatest123 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe it will have all sorts of negative consequences out of the public light and control. Can you please name some?

Well, forbidding adults from smoking is one of the negative consequences.

Smoking? This is about tobacco.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#196

Post by justinclift »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #150
justinclift wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We see this type of abuse everywhere it is legalized. Is that really the case though? The example you've highlighted there is indeed pretty crappy, but it's not evidence of the problem occuring "everywhere it is legalized".

How bad would the ‘war on life’ abuse have to be before one would consider that humanity probably can’t handle this responsibility. Especially now that we see suicides line up with date specific tax penalties in the EU… (/morbid laugh)

What the.... ?

> humanity probably can’t handle this responsibility.

Again, evidence please. Assisted Dying stuff seems to be actually useful for people in very bad situations, where death is "actually better" (for various measures :p).

That other people are not working with it in good faith isn't (by itself) an indication of humanity not being able to handle the responsibility. At least, it doesn't seem that way so far (to me).

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#197

Post by shawnz »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #186
shawnz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine is a mild stimulant and we have practically built a society in which stimulant use is nearly essential (see caffeine for example)

Hmm yes but I don't believe people willingly pick nicotine to deal with that. Most of us just grab an espresso. It's the people that were already smoking that go for the nicotine. And if it were that harmless, why wouldn't they put it in drinks?

For non-office workers it's not always convenient to make coffee while you work, so perhaps that's the difference. And to be clear, I don't think it's harmless (but I think the degree to which it is more harmful than caffeine, if you exclude the non-nicotine-related harms of smoking cigarettes, is probably exaggerated)

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#198

Post by over_bridge »

jamesvnz wrote: post #107
petodo wrote: post #2

actually discussed here, but it didn't gain a lot of points, so not much visibility for such big news https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33967454

Big news? It's certainly not a topic of active conversation in NZ. It was talked about for a day or two when it was announced a while back - I haven't seen a single news article about it recently, nor has anyone talked about it. The opposition political parties haven't made a big deal out of it either that I've noticed. I don't think anyone really cares. With vaping still being allowed - it's all a bit moot. Anyone b…

I'm also from NZ. No one cares about this really. Smoking is already unpopular and people feel little sympathy for the plight of future smokers.

We don't have the same culture of personal freedoms at any cost as many commenters here. It's gross so get rid of it.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#200

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

merek wrote: post #187
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wanna smoke yourself to death? Do it at home. Most people want to smoke themselves to death in the open, around other people though. It's nobody's right to pollute our air for the sake of their bad habits, thus regulations.

> Most people want to smoke themselves to death in the open This could very well be biased, as you would never notice people who smoke in private. > It's nobody's right to pollute our air for the sake of their bad habits, thus regulations Should driving a gasoline-powered vehicle for leisure be illegal?

> Should driving a gasoline-powered vehicle for leisure be illegal?

As things are going, it will be in time.

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