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The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

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Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#191

Post by LocalPCGuy »

michael_j_ward wrote: post #178
hateful wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that he's intelligent make him what we refer to in the ADHD world as Twice Exceptional (me included!). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5v1a2H-xs

Despite seeing myself almost precisely described in that video and the original article, and despite having been diagnosed with ADHD as a college student... It's hard for me to believe that there exists persons that won't / don't identify with that description, and thus the cause of my executive dysfunction isn't ADHD, but just a failure to cultivate habits of discipline.

People who are gifted definitely do just what I think you are saying - they blame their failures on their own personal inabilities to cultivate habits. And because they are smart, they were often able to compensate for potential ADHD symptoms throughout school and while young, and so it's often ruled out and not even considered until they are adults (and then often not considered because they "did good in school" etc.) Obviously not everyone who thinks they are gifted actually is, but talking about those that are here.

As one of those persons (tested 98th percentile on SAT in 8th grade, for example, and was in gifted or advanced classes until I just got bored of "extra work"), I think it is important to really consider this and reflect on whether or not something like ADHD could be at play and getting in the way of life goals. The rejection sensitivity dysphoria mentioned in the article, while it is not a diagnosed condition (won't find it in the DSM), does describe one of the states of mind of a lot of people with undiagnosed ADHD because of a lot of negative conditioning for many years, being told they just didn't have enough willpower to do things "right".

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#192

Post by astrange »

bcoughlan wrote: post #99
k__ wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went in an ADHD rabbit hole a week ago. I never considered my self suffering from it, my quirks were individual parts of my character! But now I highly suspect I have it. I lose focus all the time. For example, Going from doing laundry, to gathering dishes, and bringing out trash without finishing one of them. Or I can't read long articles with topics that are important for me but don't tickle one of my interests.…

> Or I can't read long articles with topics that are important for me but don't tickle one of my interests. Can't concentrate on boring things - surely that's normal? It feels like they're casting the ADHD net wider and wider and from reading the internet I'm starting to question whether my behavior fits into the ADHD category. And part of me wants it to so that I have a label that explains and excuses me. But how do…

> Can't concentrate on boring things - surely that's normal?

Not if it happens 24/7 across work, hobbies, and remembering to go to bed on time. (This is about struggling at work with ADHD, but it's more often possible to succeed at work and neglect everything else.)

And "bullshit jobs" are a fake concept. Just because a guy wrote a book saying he doesn't understand a job doesn't mean it's not useful to someone.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#193

Post by astrange »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #89
2bitencryption wrote: post #17

I just started working with a new team a few weeks ago. So far I've had "nice to meet you" calls with six or seven of the people on this team. And nearly half of them mentioned "by the way, I have ADHD, just so you know." And since I share so many characteristics with these individuals, now _I'm_ wondering if I have ADHD. Certainly the never-ending Instagram ads want me to think so. Or is this becoming a blanket term…

There is strong evidence that ADHD is overdiagnosed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8042533/ And of course, there is the issue of drug-seeking - for increased concentration and focus, for fun, or some other reason. And many doctors suspect patients of drug-seeking. Symptoms can easily be faked and are difficult to spot. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3173757/ https://healthland.time.com/201…

ADHD diagnosis involves interviewing your parents about what you were like as a child. If they're skipping that it's because they don't feel like doing it.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#194

Post by JackMcMack »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #89
2bitencryption wrote: post #17

I just started working with a new team a few weeks ago. So far I've had "nice to meet you" calls with six or seven of the people on this team. And nearly half of them mentioned "by the way, I have ADHD, just so you know." And since I share so many characteristics with these individuals, now _I'm_ wondering if I have ADHD. Certainly the never-ending Instagram ads want me to think so. Or is this becoming a blanket term…

There is strong evidence that ADHD is overdiagnosed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8042533/ And of course, there is the issue of drug-seeking - for increased concentration and focus, for fun, or some other reason. And many doctors suspect patients of drug-seeking. Symptoms can easily be faked and are difficult to spot. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3173757/ https://healthland.time.com/201…

1) That "ADHD is overdiagnosed" metastudy is frequently referenced, but always for the wrong reasons:

"Overdiagnosis is defined here as occurring when a person is clinically diagnosed with a condition, but the net effect of the diagnosis is unfavorable. Misdiagnosis (when a child is incorrectly labeled with an ADHD diagnosis instead of an alternative condition) and false-positive diagnosis (when a subsequent clinical encounter reveals a wrong initial diagnosis) are not the focus of this article."

Unfavorable here is:

- medication can have side effects

- it might be used as an excuse to stop trying/caring

- there's a social stigma

2) Your second link provides no evidence of drug-seeking behaviour. It only claims that it's possibly to get a high score on an ADHD checklist with fake answers. It makes no claim that people without ADHD actually seek an ADHD diagnosis to get prescription stimulants.

Note that I'm not claiming they aren't, just that this article doesn't support that claim.

3) The third link is just an article on time with the headline that 1 in 4 adults who seek treatment are faking it. I can't find any reference to this number in the article body, nor a link to the paper.

I think this is the paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46282569_Effectiven...

Color me surprised: this one does actually support the claim that 22% are exaggerating symptoms. There are of course some limitations to this study. And it makes no claim that those that are exaggerating symptoms are doing so to seek medication (again, I'm not claiming otherwise).

The good news is that there are methods to identify these patients. And given that this study is from 2010, I hope that those are in use to aid with (mis)diagnosis today.

Mitchdoogle, do you have any other evidence to support your claim of overdiagnosing and drug-seeking? In the future, please take the time to read through the articles you link. And please take the time to read the last paper before you reply.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#195

Post by Jensson »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #189
bcoughlan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or I can't read long articles with topics that are important for me but don't tickle one of my interests. Can't concentrate on boring things - surely that's normal? It feels like they're casting the ADHD net wider and wider and from reading the internet I'm starting to question whether my behavior fits into the ADHD category. And part of me wants it to so that I have a label that explains and excuses me. But how do…

I don’t have adhd but the way adhd people tell me is that they literally cant do even basic things that are under stimulating. Im talking basics like doing the laundry, taking out the trash, keeping a neat workspace, throwing out spoiled food, and other very mundane chores. It causes physical pain or something.

All those activities requires lots of focus. If we don't focus when doing them we will spill out stuff, or miss stuff when cleaning etc, and that makes people angry. Trying to do the right thing and focus on the task is basically impossible, so then there is no choice but to get screamed at by angry people who thinks we are lazy and defiant, no wonder we get angry and irritated...

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#196

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

rrobukef wrote: post #180
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets rephrase what you just said > straight people are the problem for not wanting to date gay or trans people It just is. Everyone has challenges, people with ADHD have challenges that can be particularly difficult for sure, but blaming others for not being like you is and telling them it's their responsibility is the same thing just reversed. It doesn't improve your situation.

Please don't. Society forces everybody to interact socially. In a society where everybody is expected to date anybody, forcing somebody to date is still abhorrent.

> Society forces everybody to interact socially.

No, the premise you require in order for me to be wrong is that society forces this on everyone, but I live with a woman who has crippling anxiety to the point of being on disability for it and I can tell you that's emphatically untrue. Even SSI related meetings happen over the phone because of her disability.

Those with ADHD have many challenges that other people don't have, but asking the whole of society to suddenly be able to understand them better is like asking all women to be start preferring short men. It just is, and those with these challenges will have to learn how to deal with them (and you see posters on HN all the time talking about how they've done just that). For those for which it's truly debilitating, we need to make sure they don't fall through the cracks (and for the most part we do this).

It's as much a part of reality as the person with 2 missing thumbs having more difficulty grasping things than someone with both thumbs.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#197

Post by odiroot »

Moissanite wrote: post #5

As an adult who feels like they identify with these characteristics, it is hard to know when to try to get help, or whether you are just seeing what you want to see and looking for an excuse. I have always shied away from seeking an adult ADHD diagnosis, partly because of prideful denial (not wanting to acknowledge that there might be something wrong with me), and partly because I have no faith in the NHS giving a sh…

> and partly because I have no faith in the NHS giving a shit

If you have to deal with NHS for ADHD, them giving a shit is the least of your problems. Getting an appointment with a dedicated specialist is the hardest thing. Currently the waiting times are 6 months to 2 years.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#198

Post by jwatt »

I recently watched the following series of videos by Russell Barkley who I believe is one of the world's leading ADHD researchers. I think it's a good place to start because it describes the scientific understanding of what ADHD is, which I feel has given me a more solid grounding to evaluating other things I read and hear about ADHD, some of which turns out to be innacurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T9LQ5kqOqo&list=PLzBixSjmbc...

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#199

Post by jwatt »

jwatt wrote: post #198

I recently watched the following series of videos by Russell Barkley who I believe is one of the world's leading ADHD researchers. I think it's a good place to start because it describes the scientific understanding of what ADHD is, which I feel has given me a more solid grounding to evaluating other things I read and hear about ADHD, some of which turns out to be innacurate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T9LQ5kqO…

He also just released the second edition of his book, Taking Charge of Adult ADHD, this year. That book (along with Atomic Habits) seems to be the one most suggested by the ADHD subredit's users...at least for those who can manage to make it through a book.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#200

Post by k__ »

aatd86 wrote: post #163
k__ wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went in an ADHD rabbit hole a week ago. I never considered my self suffering from it, my quirks were individual parts of my character! But now I highly suspect I have it. I lose focus all the time. For example, Going from doing laundry, to gathering dishes, and bringing out trash without finishing one of them. Or I can't read long articles with topics that are important for me but don't tickle one of my interests.…

Out of curiosity, do you have intrusive thoughts? Or if you think about your thoughts calmly, at a distance, what pops up? When you try to imagine let's say a chess board and the pieces on it, does it look clear to you? Or do you have difficulties controlling your internal visualization? (if anyone also with ADHD wants to answer, feel free)

I have intrusive thoughts.

When I try to phantasize something to calm myself down for sleep, I often end up thinking about something embarrassing or hurtful from the past. I can't control it, it just happens and when I notice it, I alread ruminates some time about it and don't know how I got there.

But besides that, I don't have problems to visualize things in my mind. I just have to do it consciously, most of the time I think in concepts.

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