Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up • Hacker News Board

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#191

Post by justahuman74 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:00 AM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #160

fullshark wrote: post #37

A lot of upperwardly mobile, ambitious people don't realize this, or they generally understand it only in terms of chastising their high school peers who stayed home. If you build a society based on the assumption everyone will simply move and re-skill to the regions with economic opportunity, you get a lot of regions of bitter people who stayed behind somewhere and watched their local economy get destroyed by trade…

Two sets of assumptions, though: * The "stay behind" terminology is both evocative and biased. I didn't "stay behind". I moved away several times, thousands of miles, and lived in other places that ambitious people live, and then moved back to within 10 miles of where I grew up because the quality of life is better here. I can afford more, I have cultural amenities like world-class music and art, I'm near family and…

> Sometimes it seems you can only truly be upwardly mobile if you can avoid caregiving responsibilities.

This resonates strongly with me, I can't imagine being able to move around like I do when my parents become too old

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#192

Post by karaterobot » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:05 AM UTC

I have nothing to back this up, but it feels like this has probably been the rule for most of human history, and it was just that unusual period in the 20th century where things may have been different for a while. We tend to measure everything against that period, which may someday be recognized as a specific kind of fallacy. Again, I have no data in this case, and am not going to look any up.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#193

Post by knaik94 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:08 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #161

knaik94 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of value in learning about different cultures by physically travelling, but I think there are other options now. I believe the hyper-globalization of society due to technology allows many more people to experience other cultures without needing to travel. It's up to individuals to take advantage of it and lean into certain discomforts. I don't believe it's possible to integrate with modern society succ…

I don't think YouTube videos or even a two-week trip are substitutes for living somewhere different. Too many small things you can't notice at that level of engagement.

Moving somewhere new is similarly challenging, in my opinion, to becoming assimilated into a very passionate and niche online or in person community. I am not trying to argue that one can be a substitute for the other. I believe both situations can meaningfully challenge someone to grow and change the trajectory of their life. I don't believe moving somewhere physically is the only way to experience the culture there.

Doing one will help you prepare to get the most out of the other. Living somewhere and doing immersive language learning would help you understand and enjoy media and food specific to that region. And watching shows and making dishes would help you connect with people from there and feel less like a tourist if you were to visit. It's depends on the individual whether the big things or the small things will push them to grow the most.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#194

Post by ethanbond » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:15 AM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #180

ethanbond wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick any moderate sized city in Europe! There's no reason Americans have to choose between glass and concrete imposing megastructures a la (parts of) NYC or sprawling car-dependent and socially atomized burbs a la Houston/Phoenix etc. We can have moderately dense, highly walkable, transit-connected, safe, clean, private, quiet, socially vibrant, affordable towns and suburbs all over the country. We just choose not to…

If ZEV’s and alternative energy take off, and self driving eventually lives up to the hype, public transportation will be obsolete with the exception of dense cities. Assuming such a future comes to pass (And that’s obviously a big question mark), desirability and property values in suburban-like neighborhoods would go up, since suburbs are no longer at a disadvantage for all those things you are arguing, like walkab…

Unfortunately even in the optimistic case this will exacerbate many of the real insidious problems: obesity, loneliness/social atomization, extreme age and income stratification

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#195

Post by fdsfdxfvcx » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:17 AM UTC

another_story wrote: post #109

saraton1n wrote: post #34

I was a military child, and so I moved around my whole life. My best friend has lived their whole life in the city I live in now. Sometimes I get a little jealous because I don't have any heart-connection to any place. Most of the friends I regularly talk to are people I've met within the last 5 years, and I still don't have any still-standing friendships from the time before my dad retired. But also, I cannot imagin…

I split my childhood between three places, and my adult life between four, many in different countries. The wife and I are planning to move again next year. It's sometimes hard when you see others with their consistent lives, and roots laid down, but at the same time they'll often say how they envy you. It's similar to the choice of having or not having kids. The trade off in life experiences is neither better or wor…

>It's similar to the choice of having or not having kids. The trade off in life experiences is neither better or worse, just different.

i'm not so sure about that

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#196

Post by Alupis » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:17 AM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #189

Alupis wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, America is very big. For perspective, America is just shy of the square mileage of all of Europe - but America is just one country... and it has half the population of Europe. This means things can be, and are, very spread out. It is not unusual for a person in the US to live 20-60+ miles from their work - by choice. It is simply not possible for everyone in the US to live in or near these mega-cities.…

The thing is, I grew up in a tiny town in rural Arizona. I’m amply familiar with how large our country is. It simply does not track that because our country is huge, we must either live in uncomfortable mega-cities or in car-dependent and socially/economically/environmentally unworkable SFH sprawl. Americans overwhelmingly live in one of these two. They both have significant downsides that we truly don’t have to acce…

The problems you attribute to how American's live are not unique to America. Therefore, correlation does not equal causation.

> tiny town in rural Arizona

I don't think most of us would say a tiny rural town is anything like a suburban area surrounding a moderate/mega city.

My suburb is near one of these moderately sized cities (less than 1 million population). None of these fantasies are working well for this moderately sized city. All of the same problems exist... drugs, crime, safety, privacy, homeless, trash, exceedingly expensive... plus public transit isn't sufficient to rely on either. It's literally the worst qualities of both combined into one special dump.

And... if you truly believe suburbs are a deterioration of quality of life in America, you really need to try living in one. I can just as easily wave my hand and exclaim mega-cities are the root of all problems in this nation. In fact, I'd have a lot more evidence to support condemnation of mega-cities, including how they doom people into permanently impoverished lives.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#197

Post by throwaway5959 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:28 AM UTC

fullshark wrote: post #37

A lot of upperwardly mobile, ambitious people don't realize this, or they generally understand it only in terms of chastising their high school peers who stayed home. If you build a society based on the assumption everyone will simply move and re-skill to the regions with economic opportunity, you get a lot of regions of bitter people who stayed behind somewhere and watched their local economy get destroyed by trade…

No post body was provided.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#198

Post by ethanbond » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:31 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #196

ethanbond wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, I grew up in a tiny town in rural Arizona. I’m amply familiar with how large our country is. It simply does not track that because our country is huge, we must either live in uncomfortable mega-cities or in car-dependent and socially/economically/environmentally unworkable SFH sprawl. Americans overwhelmingly live in one of these two. They both have significant downsides that we truly don’t have to acce…

The problems you attribute to how American's live are not unique to America. Therefore, correlation does not equal causation. > tiny town in rural Arizona I don't think most of us would say a tiny rural town is anything like a suburban area surrounding a moderate/mega city. My suburb is near one of these moderately sized cities (less than 1 million population). None of these fantasies are working well for this modera…

Gee wiz, I’ve lived in a tiny rural town in AZ, moderate sized city in Northern AZ, Palo Alto, Manhattan, Brooklyn, Seattle, Raleigh, and a small town outside of Albany.

Yes, the fact that your nearby city is the worst of both worlds is my point. This is a condemnation of the way we build cities. Note that you are still near a city due to the amenities and opportunities that only cities can provide. This effect appears only to get stronger, not weaker, with time. So how can we not condemn later generations to abysmal living conditions?

It doesn’t look like either of the options on the menu in the US today.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#199

Post by mistrial9 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:38 AM UTC

TacticalCoder wrote: post #177

parker_mountain wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it, as well, is that a lot of these regions that people moved out of are the suburbs. Many suburbs are not sustainable, and are degrading.

> Many suburbs are not sustainable, and are degrading. If the suburbs aren't sustainable, then what about rural? What about seaside? Where everything is super spread. It sounds to me that the "because roads" is an argument constantly made by those who levy taxes and by those who wants ever more taxes to be levied on others. I live in a super-spread out rural/seaside area where I drive across vineyards to drive my kid…

you are right to be suspicious of the explanation -- the truth is partly what is said in other comments, and partly that core City Hall employees, local Police and Fire unions have built retirement and 401k investments that are insolvent -- also a Ponzi. There is soft money being pushed around a LOT right now to pretend its OK.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#200

Post by mistrial9 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 12:42 AM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #171

082349872349872 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how globalised the anti-globalisation populist political movements may be. Yesterday's news included "Reichsbürger" getting busted in Deutschland for conspiring to coup, and it was mentioned the suspects were also pretty QAnon-aligned. However, Reichsbürger are not indigenous, but are derived from US "Sovereign Citizens", who result from an amalgam of nuttery derived from XIX and XX conspiracies wishing to…

This heavily underestimates the influence of Ezra Pound through his disciple and biographer Eustace Mullins. Butz certainly upped the economic pressure on rural people, but the theory is regular old European conspiratorial antisemitism as revived through Dreyfus, then post-WWI central European "stabbed in the back" fantasies, and interpreted by the fascist Europhile Pound. If the US government hadn't just completed a…

no thanks for this simplified explanation -- "regular old European conspiratorial anti-whatever" is not the same as being suspicious of debt-and-foreign-trade driven core economies. There are winners and losers -- Farmers and their communities are sometimes the losers when you get cheap fruit from 5000km away, and lend money to people for basic needs from centralized and international banking.