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I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

theeggandtherock.substack.com

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Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#191

Post by blackoil »

Moru wrote: post #126
nmfisher wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my reaction too, 20,000 (euros) seems quite decent for a tiny freelance engagement, and just skimming the contract, that all seems bog-standard, too. If he didn't think the money was fair, he shouldn't have accepted it. I expect Mojang would have simply pulled the plug and gone with someone else if he had done so. This really just smacks of sour grapes that Mojang was sold for squillions and the author feels…

Mojang was not a tiny indie company though, it already sold millions of copies before the release. Yes, he should have let his agent negotiate the contract. Do what you are good at and let others do what they are good at.

Size of Mojang is immaterial. If Apple or Microsoft hire a copywriter they'll still pay market rate. Any reason to believe the Author would have received bigger value with help of agent in 2010?

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#192

Post by iepathos »

The person who really got screwed in all this is poor Charlie, the agent. Here he is managing deals for Julian getting a percentage of those deals and Julian it sounds like is not making much, so Charlie probably isn't making much off Julian either. Julian goes and basically gives away his most successful work to ruthless Mojang and Charlie gets nothing for it at all because Julian keeps Charlie in the dark. Charlie probably would've been able to get a significant sum from either Mojang or Microsoft for both of them, but instead gets cut out completely by Julian for no good reason.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#193

Post by operator-name »

operator-name wrote: post #170

This has also been posted to the Minecraft subreddit, where is has received a lot of positive attention from the community: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/zf8ye0/i_wrote_t...

It's quite intersting seeing the difference in focus and tone between HN and the Minecraft subreddit.

Although the end poem has received criticism here, it's obvious from the thread that it's touched a lot of people.

Being friends and known a small number of "artists", the difference in mindset was extremely apparent - some of them just think and see the world fundimental very differently from the way I do. Many actions and explanations here are not that of a piece to convince or persuade, but of an individual sharing their raw self and their struggles. Thus its been interesting to see the reaction from HN, who are obviously different in another way. HN is the Carl of the story, who also misses what the author considers the "broader point" of wanting to be treated as a friend.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#194

Post by richardwhiuk »

spuz wrote: post #186
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

My interpretation of the legal status is that the author is entitled to accept the €20k as payment for his time but that amount doesn't constitute payment for the copyright of the work. Mojang subsequently wanted to purchase that copyright and hence why they sent the contract for £1 to be signed. Julian believed the copyright was worth more and so rejected the offer. All that is to say that if my interpretation is co…

At minimum, they are buying a non-exclusive license to copy the work. Beyond that is speculation.

(Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft on nothing related, and love Minecraft the game.)

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#195

Post by FamosoRandom »

operator-name wrote: post #170

This has also been posted to the Minecraft subreddit, where is has received a lot of positive attention from the community: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/zf8ye0/i_wrote_t...

This is really interesting to compare both general opinion on HN and on this subreddit.

On HN, a place probably filled with technical guys, people are generaly putting themselves in dev shoes. They are accusing the author of feeling entitled to more money because he felt like he was part of the team and that he think his work is equaly important as the work of everyone else. Devs being devs generaly know that coding is hard and long, and generaly don't know if writing a poem is difficult or not.

On the subreddit, a place probably filled with long time minecraft player, people are putting themselves in the artist shoes. They support the author and are thanking him for creating one of the key moment during a minecraft game : the end.

Rationality versus Emotion. Who is right, who is wrong ? Is anyone right ? Maybe both side are blinded by their beliefs ?

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#196

Post by iLoveOncall »

This guy sure as hell likes to read his own writing, my god that post is way too long to end up just saying "me want money".

On a side note I have played Minecraft hundreds of hours and have "finished" it hundreds of times, and never noticed a poem at the end.

Like everyone I skip the credits because I'm playing Minecraft to... play Minecraft? Not to read a wall of text.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#197

Post by operator-name »

true_religion wrote: post #188
operator-name wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that is the point, as if you believe the author's summary: > I wrote a story for a friend, but in the end, he didn't treat me like a friend, and I'm hurt. In this framing, these are examples of being treated as an outsider.

To me, it seems clear that he was not a friend. The people, who slaved away for months or years as employees to build the game may have been friends. That would explain the outsized compensation they all got. However, he was just a contractor found via twitter who wrote a few pages of text for the ending credits. They really did not think of him as a friend, and when he was done with work they never contacted him aga…

But once again, why the focus on compensation? It's a pretty small section of the article that's after the frustration with Carl.

Once again speculating, but the author didn't want to be treated like "just a contractor", and nor did that seem like how the relationship started out. Even as a contractor, I personally feel Notch could have reached out with happy words at a minimum - instead the author got silence.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#198

Post by FamosoRandom »

operator-name wrote: post #193
operator-name wrote: post #170

This has also been posted to the Minecraft subreddit, where is has received a lot of positive attention from the community: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/zf8ye0/i_wrote_t...

It's quite intersting seeing the difference in focus and tone between HN and the Minecraft subreddit. Although the end poem has received criticism here, it's obvious from the thread that it's touched a lot of people. Being friends and known a small number of "artists", the difference in mindset was extremely apparent - some of them just think and see the world fundimental very differently from the way I do. Many acti…

I find it hilarious that we both wrote the same idea pratically at the same time, are you me from another universe ? or maybe I am you ?

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#199

Post by krisoft »

xmprt wrote: post #81
krisoft wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hopefully Microsoft doesn’t go after this guy Let’s not spread FUD, what would they go after for this guy and why?

They had a long conversation over email and an exchange of payment for the right to at least use the poem. Whether you like it or not, that can count as a contract. It might be different in different jurisdictions but here's the US definition of a contract ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/contract ): > The basic elements required for the agreement to be a legally enforceable contract are: mutual assent, expressed by…

> They had a long conversation over email and an exchange of payment for the right to at least use the poem.

I agree with that.

This would be a real encumberance if the author were to decide he wants to sue someone. But that is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing if Microsoft will sue the author.

We are not discussing if Microsoft can sue him. The way this works anyone can sue anyone for pretty much any reason. So that is not an interesting question.

So will they sue? The problem with these kind of informal contracts is that they are vague. Vague in practical terms means two things: 1 the outcome of any legal action is uncertain. 2 things take longer. This means that litigating things about them are expensive and uncertain.

And here I repeat: the question here is not if they can use it, but if they paid for exclusive rights.

So on one hand you have a huge mess of a litigation. On an other hand do you think microsoft is meaningfully and perceptibly harmed here? Do you think they will sell less game licences or ender dragon plushies because of this? I very much doubt it.

Based on the balance of these two above do you feel it is in the best interest of Microsoft to sue the author?

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#200

Post by [deleted] »

operator-name wrote: post #175
cmeacham98 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he was an outsider, he wasn't Notch's friend. Notch contacted him for the express purpose of writing the End Poem. Of course, I'm sure they were friend ly in their discussions, there's no point in being actively hostile to the people you're working with. But the idea the relationship extended anything past a game developer and a contracted writer seems to be entirely in the author's mind.

I definitely agree, and on the basis of the information given that seems to be the crux of the issue. Yet I can easily believe and totally see that the author saw it as more - who's to say that they weren't closer to friends prior to the initial discussion about contracts?

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