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Twitter at 1am on a Friday

teamblind.com

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Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#191

Post by quonn »

bmn__ wrote: post #141
capitalsigma wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say that it's also ableist to ask people to "just resist fascism"? After all, many people are indeed conditioned to accommodate fascism. Or pick another -ism you prefer.

Yes, that hews into the same notch. One cannot simply resist any form of oppression, there were/are only a lucky few who had the motivation, ability and resources to do so. If you are one of those and would gladly take a fight against the world to make it better, then be mindful to not hastily generalise from your position.

Camus and Sartre would like a word. I prefer their worldview.

By your own argument I don‘t even need to give a good reason. I‘m not able to give a good reason, I prefer their philosophy of being responsible based on your notion of not having the ability to see it any different.

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#192

Post by kcplate »

kaba0 wrote: post #164
kcplate wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a lot of you are willing to take a chance with some risk and some effort. Maybe you get nothing. I know some really wealthy people who are only wealthy because they took a little risk. I know some people who could be wealthy too if they took the same leap, but didn’t and they aren’t. Perhaps they felt like you do…. It all comes down to choices. These people sticking at Twitter are making their choice. Others le…

What exactly is your proposed mechanism for success, by working an ordinary IT job? How is it any different than any other workplace, now that it is owned by Musk? The best you can hope for is a decent bonus, but that is not life altering in any way and I don’t think it is worth the stress of working under an unstable idiot drama queen some insane hours that may or may not get paid, over at.. the million other IT job…

I live quite a comfortable life despite three decades of “working an ordinary IT jobs”. I guess I don’t see the obvious downside here. These folks are choosing to stick around—maybe it’s an ordinary IT job and maybe working for Musk could be challenging, but maybe they turn around the company and Musk rewards the loyalty, and maybe he doesn’t’. At that point they can re-evaluate.

I don’t buy into the notion that Musk is the worst boss in the world. A former colleague and I were laughing recently at how mild Musk is compared to an old boss we had.

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#193

Post by wwkeyboard »

gizmo385 wrote: post #139
phendrenad2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen an optional hackathon that didn't come with serious "contribute or else" vibes.

I’m the exact opposite. I’ve never seen a hackathon with that mentality and you should avoid hackathons that guilt you into working beyond your limits

It's the cost of failure that's different. If you loose a hackathon everyone gets a high five and goes home empty handed. If you loose at your job(in the US) you have no income, a very high COBRA payment, and possibly a major visa problem. All of which are a fantastic way to start a recession.

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#194

Post by mlindner »

beebmam wrote: post #58
wskish wrote: post #25

I am amazed by how polarizing this seems to be. Some of my best memories are from previous startups with this exact 1am energy. This is how shared mental models are built, shit gets done, and shared suffering cements lifelong bonds.

I'm kind of amazed there isn't an immediate union drive right now.

Why would you stick around to form a union when you could take 3 months of severance? What would you get out of a union hostile to leadership by staying at Twitter versus the 3 months pay and going somewhere else?

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#195

Post by kcplate »

sys_64738 wrote: post #176
kcplate wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, some week down the line they may only work 20 hours and as salaried employees will likely still get the same paycheck that they did for doing 80 hours. By your logic I guess they wouldn’t deserve that 50% extra comp they received for the hours they didn’t work, correct? I’d say it’s a safe bet that almost all have happily cashed that paycheck for likely years and I’d wager at least 50% didn’t work 2080 hours in t…

> Exempt employees drawing a salary are pretty much paid on an expect end result more than some arbitrary # of hours the employee works. Hours are meaningless. "Exempt" is company-speak to make you think your hours worked are not tied to compensation. Try tell a lawyer or structural engineer the same and they'd laugh at you.

> "Exempt" is company-speak to make you think your hours worked are not tied to compensation. Try tell a lawyer or structural engineer the same and they'd laugh at you.

Uh, no. “Exempt” is a legal definition created by a bunch of politicians to exempt people from the FSLA. Basically it means that certain roles can be tied to an expected outcome and not a specific hourly pay guideline. And specifically in the state of California, SWEs can be classified as exempt allowing their employer to require them to work whatever number of hours that are necessary to achieve an outcome.

Since California is also an “at will” state, the employee is free to leave the arrangement.

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#196

Post by kcplate »

koonsolo wrote: post #154
kcplate wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I attribute my belief that it’s important for the company helping me via my compensation to feed, cloth, and shelter my family to be successful to my upbringing. I mean I don’t recall my parents ever saying “When you start working, do as little as possible because screw them they dont deserve your best effort.” Are you implying that contributing to your company’s success isn’t important? I mean I have helped mul…

In my experience, the most chaotic companies that were fire fighting all the time tried to pull this "there is this deadline and it has to be finished by X or else we die". The successful companies on the other hand, are planning ahead and taking setbacks into account. Work was done properly so no crazy firefighting. They also don't burn out their employees. Just my experience of a 43 yo developer.

Sure, but in this specific case you kind of have to assume that Twitter wasn’t on fire already and was well planned and addressing setbacks. I think a fair metaphor could be that there was a bunch of folks enjoying the warmth the flames on the tree in front of them, but ignoring the blazing forest around them.

I think in that case creating a deadline of “we need to put this fire out before it consumes the entire forest” and motivating a bunch of smokejumpers hop in and bust their ass to save the forest isn’t a bad thing.

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#197

Post by yencabulator »

scarab92 wrote: post #73
yongjik wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A startup sized team working on a platform with twitters scale for a boss with capital and a willingness to consider new ideas? Willingness to consider his new ideas. Not your new ideas. He's the idea man, your job is to implement it. And if you tell him why the idea may not work as intended, you're fired.

This is silly. Companies like Tesla and SpaceX don't succeed without a willingness to consider new ideas. They clearly aren't the result of one man's ideas alone.

Tesla and SpaceX had very hard problems to solve.

What new hard problem is Twitter solving, at this stage of its life?

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#198

Post by bsg75 »

spoils19 wrote: post #150
kamaal wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just L visa(I was on L a few years back, and returned back). Let's be honest this is far from what people call slavery. They are being paid multiples of six digit salaries, RSUs and work in one of the most happening tech ecosystems of the world. I would love to be a part of something like this. Heck most of us would love to be a part of something like. I kind of envy those guys working on these projects. I h…

Agreed. I've missed multiple deaths in the family, important events with friends and sacrificed a large chunk of my life to be in one of the most happening tech ecosystems in the world. Even when I was eventually fired due to burn out, I walked away thinking to myself: "I still envy the people in that office, working hard for that CEO".

Envy for others working to burnout for some other person? How sad.

A CEO is just a title, often for someone who’s can’t get anything done independently.

Musk is an example. He builds nothing, actual engineers build, actual salespeople sell.

Re: Twitter at 1am on a Friday

#199

Post by RickJWagner »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #126
bern4444 wrote: post #36

Lots of comments on how hackathons and late night sessions were fond memories for people. The difference is those events were chosen. If you are forced to remain at your company (due to visa issues for example) being forced by your CEO to stay at work until 1am is atrocious. This is not a profession where being at the office this late is the norm and it's not typical for the environment. Twitter is not a startup in a…

I've never seen an optional hackathon that didn't come with serious "contribute or else" vibes.

Yeah, true.

All-hands-on-deck after hours work is ALWAYS done under duress.

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