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TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

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Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#191

Post by [deleted] »

scrapcode wrote: post #172
Dinux wrote: post #142

I don't understand the 'everything was better when it wasn't google' mentality that is so often found in these threads. My dad used to work at TomTom right here in the Netherlands. They used to be a fun and innovative company to work for. When it became apparent they entered a multibillion dollar business it was all about the money. As someone who used TomTom before other options became available I can honestly say t…

I must agree. I do not remember a very pleasant experience using the GPS dash units. I would move often with the Navy and would use the GPS unit for a couple weeks but challenge myself as soon as possible to learn to get around without it. Now when I am going somewhere over 30 minutes away I throw it into GMaps even if I know how to get there, as there could be a number of events that could've caused a reroute since…

[deleted]

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#192

Post by Reubachi »

Bubble_Pop_22 wrote: post #163
stevage wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps works for certain, pretty common, use cases. That doesn't mean it works for everyone or for every business. Monopolies are bad, near monopolies slightly less bad. And especially when it comes to a platform that significantly influences how millions of people perceive the world around them. (Source: making web maps is my career. I don't touch Google Maps professionally but use it a lot personally.)

> Monopolies are bad, near monopolies slightly less bad Natural monopolies (such as the one acquired by Google) are not bad as long as government retains the monopoly of B2 bombers. It's not really a monopoly when it can be ended at a moment's notice

Can you describe a monopoly that isn't "natural"? I see what you mean but struggle to think of a traditional monopolistic company that doesn't have a "we started with the industry" defense.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#193

Post by bearmode »

reaperducer wrote: post #62
bearmode wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In those situations, just download offline maps to use?

You assume that one knows that the place where you're going is beyond the reach of cellular service before one even goes there.

With Google Maps I can literally download maps of the entire UK, and they are kept locally for 6 months? A year? I can't remember how long.

Any time I'm driving somewhere reasonably far (or where I know there's no service), I'll download or update the maps. Never had an issue.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#194

Post by dmd »

amachefe wrote: post #190
dmd wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I google "why is it bad for google to track you", I can find a hundred articles breathlessly telling you all the ways google is tracking you, and a hundred more on how to stop it - but none answering the question. Can someone explain to me why it's a problem? (I make the assumption that even if google doesn't do it, your carrier does, so it doesn't add anything additional to "government's ability to repress/harass…

If you don't have any problem with your daily itenary beinf tracked, then no explanation will be good enough for you. Just respect the fact that people don't want their daily activities available to 3rd parties

But that's exactly what I'm trying to understand. What is the problem people have with it? Maybe if you tell me, I'll feel the same way!

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#195

Post by berkes »

dmd wrote: post #187
UltraViolence wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a TomTom PND and I swear by it. It's much better than the navigation systems built into cars (unless they're TomTom, several brands have them built-in). Also, I refuse to use Google Maps as I am loath to let Google know my travel history. I am, however, somewhat concerned that TomTom uploads my travel history to their servers, since my device has LTE/3G capability. This was used to fetch congestion information…

If I google "why is it bad for google to track you", I can find a hundred articles breathlessly telling you all the ways google is tracking you, and a hundred more on how to stop it - but none answering the question. Can someone explain to me why it's a problem? (I make the assumption that even if google doesn't do it, your carrier does, so it doesn't add anything additional to "government's ability to repress/harass…

For me, it's simple. Google is using this data to cement it's monopoly, to extort businesses and to pressure governments.

From your comment, it seems like your main concern is that governments can access your data. But what if beyond&above those governments, there is a single entity that's far more powerful? Would you be willingly hand the data to them? Because that is what Google is. Or is becoming. Or, if you're very sceptical: can easily become.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#196

Post by kybernetyk »

Dinux wrote: post #142

I don't understand the 'everything was better when it wasn't google' mentality that is so often found in these threads. My dad used to work at TomTom right here in the Netherlands. They used to be a fun and innovative company to work for. When it became apparent they entered a multibillion dollar business it was all about the money. As someone who used TomTom before other options became available I can honestly say t…

Last year I shelled out 700 Euros for a Garmin Overlander off road navigation unit. I wish I didn't. The hardware is very nice - essentially a rugged Android tablet with a well thought out mounting mechanism.

But the software side ... oh boy. The "Garmin Explore" service this device is intended to work with looks like something from 2004. I mean not a finished product from 2004. But a proof of concept or minimal viable product from 2004. Usability is terrible. Planing trips/routes on the device is torture. Using the web interface isn't much better. (I'd link a screenshot but the service seems to be down ... again lol).

Sync breaks all the time. It's triggered by "bad" filenames for the .gpx files. Some special chars seem to break syncing so bad that the device won't sync at all until you delete the offending file in the cloud - but there's no error message. One day you just wonder why your recent route you planned in the browser isn't on the device. So you go to the sync tab and there's a message like "Last sync: 3_weeks_ago". Have fun fixing this as a normal person. (This bug also comes up when a route has a wrong count of waypoints ... it's not too many waypoints, it seems to be a number between too few and too many). I only figured this out by accident. Garmin support told me to reset the device and make a new account. (Which meant I lost all my tracks).

Now if Garmin did work on the software and provided updates I wouldn't be so salty. But there has been 0 improvements to the software side of things since the device was released like 3 years ago. ZERO. All you get is map updates which are for the street navigation side of things. The "overlanding" part? Forget it. There has been 0 bug fixes, 0 new features, nothing.

I guess you're supposed to buy the new (more expensive) Garmin device that recently came out. As if I would give Garmin one more Euro.

It's not even incompetence. It's maliciousness. They have a line up of wireless cameras (which you mount to your vehicle's bumper, etc). The cams connect via WiFi to the navigation device. Recently Garmin released a new camera - one which I'de find rather useful as it's small and works completely via battery and you can clip to the license plate. So you don't have to wire anything and can take it easily off when you don't need it.

But guess what - not compatible with my 700 Euro Android Tablet that could be made totally compatible via a software update if Garmin just wanted to. If you want to use the new cam: Buy the new 1200 Euro navi model. Oh, btw. some of the the older cameras won't work with the new device ... so you better buy a new set of new cameras.

I hope Garmin goes bankrupt. Sincerely.

/edit: I switched to the Gaia GPS app running on an iPad mini. Waaaay better experience.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#197

Post by saiya-jin »

Dinux wrote: post #156
calvinmorrison wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power of an app to route people down an old farm road rather than taking the pike to me, is enough. I feel bad for those who live there because its about 30 seconds faster to on the highway

But thats not whats happening. Google Maps, Waze, Apple Maps etc all prefer certain paths over others. I can take a shortcut home which saved me about 5 minutes and potential traffic jams, and Google Maps will never suggest it, unless I deliberately drive down that road.

In my place (Geneva, Switzerland), Google Maps stubbornly keeps suggesting for years the fastest route form my side of the town to the other through one of few bridges that is actually absolute no-go for public traffic, with tons of warning signs (sometimes some of them are obscured by buses but still hard to miss).

Needless to say, there is often some sucker going through there, and I have to admit I ended up there once too exactly because of Google Maps. No effort to correct it over the years, in one of the wealthiest and most important power/finance centers globally.

What you and parent describe happened to me too, maps are absolute blessing compared to what was there before but they are sometimes not that great ie in cities with a lot of traffic. Its easy to get used to something just working and start demanding perfection, when we are maybe 96% there.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#198

Post by MontyCarloHall »

dmd wrote: post #187
UltraViolence wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a TomTom PND and I swear by it. It's much better than the navigation systems built into cars (unless they're TomTom, several brands have them built-in). Also, I refuse to use Google Maps as I am loath to let Google know my travel history. I am, however, somewhat concerned that TomTom uploads my travel history to their servers, since my device has LTE/3G capability. This was used to fetch congestion information…

If I google "why is it bad for google to track you", I can find a hundred articles breathlessly telling you all the ways google is tracking you, and a hundred more on how to stop it - but none answering the question. Can someone explain to me why it's a problem? (I make the assumption that even if google doesn't do it, your carrier does, so it doesn't add anything additional to "government's ability to repress/harass…

Tracking isn’t bad per se. The bad part is that all the information acquired from tracking is used to build an oversimplified profile of each user, that in turn distorts the information that Google searches return for that user.

This often reflects and amplifies societal biases. For example, users that Google identifies as female are less likely to be shown ads for high paying jobs [0]. This creates a feedback loop: if a certain user demographic is less likely to be shown a given result, they are less likely to view it, which in turn makes them even less likely to be shown it in the first place.

[0] https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/women-less-likely-to-be-shown-...

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#199

Post by nvgeele »

UltraViolence wrote: post #180
Dinux wrote: post #142

I don't understand the 'everything was better when it wasn't google' mentality that is so often found in these threads. My dad used to work at TomTom right here in the Netherlands. They used to be a fun and innovative company to work for. When it became apparent they entered a multibillion dollar business it was all about the money. As someone who used TomTom before other options became available I can honestly say t…

I have a TomTom PND and I swear by it. It's much better than the navigation systems built into cars (unless they're TomTom, several brands have them built-in). Also, I refuse to use Google Maps as I am loath to let Google know my travel history. I am, however, somewhat concerned that TomTom uploads my travel history to their servers, since my device has LTE/3G capability. This was used to fetch congestion information…

> I am, however, somewhat concerned that TomTom uploads my travel history to their servers, since my device has LTE/3G capability.

They do, or at least they used to before the GDPR came into action. Not sure what the situation is like now.

Re: TomTom’s new mapping platform and ecosystem

#200

Post by gambiting »

acdha wrote: post #136
newjersey wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> auto-learn There is a gate right behind me that is closed with chains. It isn't possible to drive through there, though you can walk in and out from the smaller gate. Google still always tells me to drive through the gate. I don't think Google Maps auto-learns. Maybe it needs a bigger sample size so people don't abuse it?

If you use the reporting interface they seem to update promptly. There’s a major road near us where Google used to tell people to make a illegal left turn across 4 lanes of traffic, which was common enough that I used to see it almost every time I went by for years. Once I found the well-hidden reporting UI, that stopped two weeks later.

There is a no-left-turn street near my work, and Google maps keeps telling me to turn left there. I've been reporting it every now and then since at least 2018 and it does nothing.
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