I don't understand what is the business case for acquiring an open-source framework? Can someone explain why couldn't they just contribute or fork the project?
Because some people want to make money with their acquisitions…
Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
191–200 of 209 posts
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
React without a framework only gives you a basic UI composition layer and some simple state management and inheritance tools. With a proper framework it becomes vastly better. It's probably a philosophical thing too. You can make your own Frankenstein site with a bunch of a separate libs or you can go with an elegantly configured and single vendor supported bolts included framework.
Meanwhile React got more love from HN while frameworks like Angular have been offering this (a batteries included complete frontend framework) for many years
Yeah Angular was great too. It was so much cleaner than early React. These days though it's not really a contender anymore, sadly... the ecosystem has moved on. Sigh.
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#193Is it me or is Remix sort of a weird, and slightly sketchy flip of the OSS money making pipe? I understand that people can take open source projects and turn a business around them by providing hosting (Vercel/Next for example), but having people 'invest' in an open source framework just seems fundamentally wrong. What is the payout for those investors, what have Shopify actually given (and to whom) for what it has '…
The remix team own the name, and npm package distribution rights. The money is used to fund development. I think you've got some good points here around the weirdness that happens when someone builds a business around something that is fundamentally open. In theory, someone could hard fork remix, rename it and do their own thing. The moat they've built is around the specific team working on remix, the remix community…
This is great, thanks for the link. I suppose I just find it strange that they haven't yet suggested what the revenue generation is for them as a whole. I only say this anecdotally, but I am pretty certain Next/Vercel/Zeit, Deno, Gatsby and Apollo all fired off their funding based on the revenue generation from their companion commercial offerings - and funding was for the revenue generating parts not specifically the OSS.
As for Remix as a whole, I'd be interested in hearing more opinion on what makes it successful? Right now I am totally invested/obsessed in Next, tRPC & Prisma as our stack of choice!
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#194This is huge. Remix is my favorite React framework at the moment. It is by far the best abstraction I've seen of client/server model. Their API abstraction layer is just right, working with native browser and nodejs APIs, not obscure them. Typescript support is amazing. I'd bet my money on Remix model and direction vs Nextjs
> I'd bet my money on Remix model and direction vs Nextjs With Nextjs 13, the patterns are actually kind of converge. See this whole thread from Ryan at Remix with his thoughts on it: https://twitter.com/ryanflorence/status/1586820806625046529
this drive to remake runat="server" worries me. i get the good intrnt to make pages fast, but making thin client pages like this radically reduces the general utility & agency of the web.
good discussion. still a worrying world to me.
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are spending tens of millions building a ruby JIT so I am not sure you are painting an accurate picture here...
So they recognize they're having problems with speed. Dropbox also spent years trying to JIT Python faster with Pyston, and were unsuccessful. They now are leveraging Rust and Go instead.
What you just said doesn't change the fact you painted an inaccurate picture. Will Shopify ditch Ruby one day? Maybe...not likely imo but maybe. For now there's zero signs they're doing that. They're investing tens of millions of dollars in Ruby as I said ... I looked at their JIT team and these guys don't come in cheap. I have no idea what this Remix purchase means but I find it hard to believe it's about rewriting everything in JS.
As for the JIT progress here are the stats https://speed.yjit.org/. I think they've been working on it for around 1.5 years they're definitely not done. Its not fantastic yet but almost 40% faster is nothing to sneeze at. If JS became fast why can't Ruby or Python? What you said about Dropbox is interesting, why is Dropbox the ones making the effort? They are not that big. There are huge companies running millions of lines of Python code - Instagram is a Django app and Google probably has a bunch of Python. I'd expect these companies to make the effort ...guess there's no economic incentive yet.
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#196Does this presage the eventual end of Rails at Shopify?
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Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd bet my money on Remix model and direction vs Nextjs With Nextjs 13, the patterns are actually kind of converge. See this whole thread from Ryan at Remix with his thoughts on it: https://twitter.com/ryanflorence/status/1586820806625046529
this drive to remake runat="server" worries me. i get the good intrnt to make pages fast, but making thin client pages like this radically reduces the general utility & agency of the web. good discussion. still a worrying world to me.
> i get the good intrnt to make pages fast, but making thin client pages like this radically reduces the general utility & agency of the web.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Remix and related technologies don't limit what you can do on the client—you still have the full power of React at your fingertips. The difference is that they blur the lines between client and server such that you get more or less seamless server-side rendering in order to populate a web page before you hydrate it client-side with React. If anything, Remix allows you to use React for more use cases where it otherwise would not have been the right tool.
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#198As someone who started off in Ember and then began developing in React: I've never liked React Router. IMO, the url is best treated as data because it doesn't work well as part of the presentation layer.
The interesting part (for me) is that I'm pretty locked into React because of Shopify's Polaris project.
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#199As someone who started off in Ember and then began developing in React: I've never liked React Router. IMO, the url is best treated as data because it doesn't work well as part of the presentation layer. The interesting part (for me) is that I'm pretty locked into React because of Shopify's Polaris project.
Just curious. What do you mean by the URL is best treated as data and what does remix do instead?
Disclaimer: I'm building a non-js frontend framework and for me the URL is a serialized representation of Application state modulo runtime data.
Re: Remix web framework aquired by Shopify
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
this drive to remake runat="server" worries me. i get the good intrnt to make pages fast, but making thin client pages like this radically reduces the general utility & agency of the web. good discussion. still a worrying world to me.
> i get the good intrnt to make pages fast, but making thin client pages like this radically reduces the general utility & agency of the web. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Remix and related technologies don't limit what you can do on the client—you still have the full power of React at your fingertips. The difference is that they blur the lines between client and server such that you get more or less seamless s…
a developr can limit the power of user-agency by moving increasing amounts of power to the server.
this trend amplifies developers potential. and it allows targetting "dumber" web clients. yay, good things. but it also makes the most advanced & competent web users less able & less capable. web apps have, for a while now, been fairly client-heavy, in a way that enables hacking & creativity. i'd love a strong counter-thesis for why this isn't the case, but this feels like a mainframization of computing, a push towards centralized control. it has upsides, as you point out, but also it keeps much more reserved & controlled & hidden. that is not very "web" like, tbh.