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Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

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Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#191

Post by reaperducer »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #158
reaperducer wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

homelessness is definitely something that affects a ton of people so it definitely is our problem as long as we are city dwellers. We have to break out of the stereotype that homelessness is a city problem. It isn't. Far from it. Homelessness is more obvious in cities because there are fewer places for homeless people to be. But there are plenty of homeless people camped out in rural and suburban towns, if you know w…

If you can't notice it is what makes it not a problem for most people.

It's absolutely noticeable, even obvious, but people choose to not see it.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#192

Post by Bakary »

ranger_danger wrote: post #128
Bakary wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is missing the forest for the trees. Of course we'd be more emotionally involved if it was someone we knew, that's not hypocritical. Most people aren't against fixing societal problems, either. As it stands, homelessness is definitely something that affects a ton of people so it definitely is our problem as long as we are city dwellers. The problem here is that misapplied empathy can lead to terrible decisions.…

Quoted post unavailable.

Is that really your only takeaway here? Feels like a parody of HN comments. It could be any other equivalent, I don't know. Even if it's KaiOS the homeless probably have other things on their mind than the CCP or whatever.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#193

Post by Eisenstein »

tpoacher wrote: post #130
angry_octet wrote: post #19

This problem, and the not-my-problem responses, really highlight the self centered mindset we have encouraged. What if that homeless person was your substance-abusing sibling? A friend from school with mental health issues? We need to collectively take more responsibility for those in the worst situations. If you've every tried to teach an old person how to use 2FA you know it's an uphill battle. Using a fingerprint…

> we need ideas like to 2FA to gain traction as widely as possible No, 2FA needs to die in a fire. Easily circumvented in most social attacks that actually matter, false sense of security, massive timewaster/usability-hell/pain in the butt, acts as a novel social/corporate/accessibility barrier to technology for a large number of previously unaffected groups, and poses a threat to software freedoms. There are many wa…

What are the other ways?

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#194

Post by yardstick »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #152
ranger_danger wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> You do realize that KaiOS is Chinese, right? What's the point of this comment? Google is American, so what? And people all over the world still use it regardless.

And Linus is Finnish!

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#195

Post by faller_slive »

saghm wrote: post #73
abraham wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you use Authy if you lose all of your possessions every few months?

From what I remember when I used Authy briefly (Google Authenticator finally added the ability to mass import/export codes shortly after I ended up trying Authy), you create a login and set a master password, and then you have access to your codes on any device when you log into the app. Of course, this means that you have to trust Authy with your codes being stored externally, but this might be one of the sets of ci…

Authy recovery requires you to have access to the same phone number when you want to restore to a new device.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#196

Post by judge2020 »

valenterry wrote: post #117
cmeacham98 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is possible to encourage 2FA but allow to opt out. You might be surprised to learn that this is how it works for Google accounts: it is default-on but you can turn it off. > If they at least would allow for a sufficient number of options. Like paper-tan (even self printed), yubikey or similar, second email address, an authenticator, ... but even big companies often only require a phone number. You might be even…

Not only have I not said that Google doesn't offer 2FA - yes they do. However, Google tries _very hard_ to prevent people from e.g. creating a gmail account without a phone number. Try it if you don't believe me.

I definitely vividly remember needing it a few years ago, but right now I can try to sign up and it says "Mobile Number (optional)" (Maybe that's based on some security heuristics).

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#197

Post by deelowe »

the_only_law wrote: post #62
stevesearer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad helps people navigate the system to find housing. Recent story was a 65yo + veteran living in a shelter. They hadn’t started collecting social security due to some debts and was worried it would ALL be garnished. After explaining that veterans get expedited in line for housing and that they would still get almost all of their SS, they have applied for it and should be housed soon. It doesn’t surprise me at all…

> They hadn’t started collecting social security due to some debts and was worried it would ALL be garnished. Is this common? I knew a guy who had the same mindset. I ended up paying him in cash for some work, he was convinced that if he made any money in a traditional role it would be instantly garnished.

It's no different than people not investing in their 401k and getting the free match because they're worried about paying "penalties" when they take it back out. My employer has a 50% match and early withdrawal penalty is only 10% and yet, people still refuse to do it.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#198

Post by warent »

peatmoss wrote: post #182
Bakary wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is missing the forest for the trees. Of course we'd be more emotionally involved if it was someone we knew, that's not hypocritical. Most people aren't against fixing societal problems, either. As it stands, homelessness is definitely something that affects a ton of people so it definitely is our problem as long as we are city dwellers. The problem here is that misapplied empathy can lead to terrible decisions.…

> Actually giving homes to the homeless would probably be cheaper than whatever we are doing now, even taking into account the mental illness and drug-abuse problems that factor into this. This point is worth reiterating. Homelessness can be solved by providing housing. Yes, homelessness is a complex multi-faceted problem, but the first order solution to the problem is to provide housing. Homelessness is a problem wi…

Unfortunately it's more complicated than this. There have been nonprofit organizations and government initiatives to give homeless people space in unoccupied hotels for example.

What ends up happening is they generally just destroy the living space in a variety of ways.

It's because the majority of homelessness is an issue of mental health. In the USA, there are pretty much zero mental health resources for people in poverty.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#199

Post by jakelazaroff »

Bakary wrote: post #111
angry_octet wrote: post #19

This problem, and the not-my-problem responses, really highlight the self centered mindset we have encouraged. What if that homeless person was your substance-abusing sibling? A friend from school with mental health issues? We need to collectively take more responsibility for those in the worst situations. If you've every tried to teach an old person how to use 2FA you know it's an uphill battle. Using a fingerprint…

This is missing the forest for the trees. Of course we'd be more emotionally involved if it was someone we knew, that's not hypocritical. Most people aren't against fixing societal problems, either. As it stands, homelessness is definitely something that affects a ton of people so it definitely is our problem as long as we are city dwellers. The problem here is that misapplied empathy can lead to terrible decisions.…

I like your comment because it gradually stumbles upon the actual solution. We aren't being ambitious enough, but developing a device designed to be harder to steal or lose is timidly incremental. By the last paragraph, we're talking about ending homelessness entirely. That is an ambitious — but achievable! — goal, and one that actually addresses the root of the problem.

Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year

#200

Post by lxgr »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #88
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when you want to apply to a job or an apartment which requires email?

I would expect it to require a phone number and physical address before an email. I also wonder if this person on twitter would be willing to let his friends use his email or phone. The homeless have challenges, no doubt, but that does not imply google worrying about 2FA for the homeless is the best way to solve those challenges. It wouldn't even BE an issue if they weren't homeless in the first place, for example.

Did you even read the linked thread, of a person apparently actually working with homeless people? It explicitly mentions that email is the preferred method of communication for many of them, for reasons also mentioned in the thread.

> The homeless have challenges, no doubt, but that does not imply google worrying about 2FA for the homeless is the best way to solve those challenges.

You seem to be under the impression that improvements to the condition of people's lives are only ethically acceptable if they happen ordered strictly by descending impact. In my experience, that's not realistic.

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