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What I’ve learned from users

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I’ve learned from users

#191

Post by citizenpaul »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #147
ianmcgowan wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe rebrand UBI as the government funding a few million startups? That and universal healthcare probably would free up enough people to start their passion project. Enough to cover the ones that want to be artists, caregivers, or just go surfing/play video games.

The thing that fascinates me about UBI (apart from the right wing capitalists promoting socialist utopias) is the effect it (presumably) will have on salaries and companies. I mean HN is populated by people who mostly enjoy their STEM related work, but even so if we did not have to pay mortgages tomorrow I suspect 75% would hand in their notice and go something else - still working but working on their own start ups…

A group of restaurants where I live decided to collectively go 'tip-less' autogratuity with health insurance cost added. I was ok with the experiment and to support the cause. Well by my account it failed. Within about 6 months the quality of service and food dropped so bad I stopped going to those restaurants. I'd say by the parking lots other people are following my lead.

I suspect UBI would have similar but wider reaching results.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#192

Post by shard »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #141
geph2021 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience[1], interacting with the salesperson and agreeing on the cars' price is about 25% of the sale process (and hassle). The salesperson nails down price, model/unit, with the customer, which already involves all manner of sleazy games on pricing. After the "sale", there's a much longer gauntlet of pitfalls and traps to navigate: extended warranties, add-ons (roof racks, floor mats, etc...), financing, tr…

I agree, the "finance person" that technically does your paperwork and pitches you all those aftermarket products is the biggest crook in the industry (right next to the service advisors that tell you what service your car needs and the price). I would sometimes fill in for finance on a rainy day, and even though I was top 0.3% in the country when it came to car sales, I Couldn't sell that garbage even with a gun poi…

It seems somewhat simple to just stand firm with the finance person and refuse all the add-ons, but how does one figure out what services are actually needed when the service adviser comes to you with a list of issues?

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#193

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #167
btbuildem wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only ever bought used cars, from individuals. Paying extra for the overhead of a dealership and some salesperson's bonus seems absurd to me. You're pretty much guaranteed to get taken advantage of by a professional. Local classifieds, private sellers, take the car to a trusted mechanic for an inspection.

Op here, selling 3000 cars. I've never bought a car at a dealership, and neither has anyone in my family in 25 years. But then again, I know cars inside and out (even from before my car sales career) so I feel pretty safe not accidentally buying a scammers car from Craigslist.

As opposed to buying a(n always more expensive) scammer's car on purpose at a used car dealership?, the choice seems easy.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#194

Post by FerociousTimes »

jstummbillig wrote: post #105
FerociousTimes wrote: post #93

Prompted by the negative feedback that this essay received, ranging from being a sales pitch in disguise, to being a word salad going in all directions without answering the central question posed by the author right in the opening paragraphs, I had to go and re-examine the piece and see if these concerns are valid or not, and unexpectedly the second reading reaffirmed my initial positive reaction that this is actual…

> without answering the central question posed by the author right in the opening paragraphs I love that it doesn't and how it doesn't. I also find it hilarious that we have been so trained by SEO and modern day marketing gurus to expect The Answer (either roughly 90% down the page or alternatively within a list of 10 short, bulleted paragraphs) that an open question makes people uncomfortable.

Maybe PG should listen to his users, in this specific case his readers, and provide a summary at the top of the article on each post for people running on a busy schedule.

I for once felt like returning to the days of college when I finished writing this comment where I'd prepare summaries for lecture notes for me and my friends, very nostalgic times.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#195

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #193
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Op here, selling 3000 cars. I've never bought a car at a dealership, and neither has anyone in my family in 25 years. But then again, I know cars inside and out (even from before my car sales career) so I feel pretty safe not accidentally buying a scammers car from Craigslist.

As opposed to buying a(n always more expensive) scammer's car on purpose at a used car dealership?, the choice seems easy.

Very few franchise dealerships would ever sell a car with problems knowingly. It does happen, because people trade in cars with intermittent problems without telling the dealership.

Compared to Craigslist where there is no shortage of people selling cars directly with current problems, intermittent problems, hidden problems, and massive paperwork issues that can stop you from registering the vehicle all together until resolved.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#196

Post by Nifty3929 »

hinkley wrote: post #90
lisper wrote: post #45

This essay is getting a surprising amount of hate, and I must confess that my first impression on reading it was that it sounded an awful lot like a Robert Kiyosaki book [1]. But then I followed the two links in the essay [2] [3] and that put it into perspective: the thing that Paul learned from his users is that they are looking for The Answer, the formula, the procedure for how to succeed, and there is no such form…

And the whole thing with VC is that they've somehow figured out how to make money while being wrong 90% of the time. With those sorts of numbers, are you really doing much better than random chance? I think your main goal is not finding who knows the Answer, but to identify who's lying about it. With those sorts of volumes of money you're going to attract fraud, and fraud can quickly break "throwing darts at a board"…

"being wrong 90% of the time."

They are not wrong 90% of the time. They place correct bets on correct companies, 90% of which will fail. This does not make them wrong, it makes them excellent gamblers. If I'm getting 100:1 odds to roll snake-eyes (two 1's), that's a great bet, and a correct one, and I am not wrong to take it, even though I'll lose money the vast majority of the time.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#198

Post by Khoth »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #139
peterkos wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recognize that it could be a helpful and rigorous experience in sales, but most car people I've gone to across dealerships have tried to guilt trip and lie to me to get me to spend more money than I have. As a student paying full in cash, I was pushed ruthlessly despite firmly saying no, and ultimately I got my car somewhere else. It reminds me how Best Buy used to have horrible customer experience, it was all comm…

I was about top 1% in the country. So buying from me would be a different experience. Maybe you landed on someone in the bottom 50%, at a bad dealership too. The owner of our dealership was a Cal grad, the sales manager was a Jewish accounting major, I had an engineering degree, my favorite coworker completed medschool but couldn't pass the MCATS, and everyone else had a degree too. When I went to work for a Penske d…

Different experience how?

> I've heard excuses, stalls, lies, promises and objections over 10,000 times.

Sounds like you were also trying to guilt trip people who then struggled to find a socially acceptable way to disengage

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#199

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

vl wrote: post #158
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a top US university in a stem degree. My coworker was a med student that couldn't pass the Mcats, but wasn't a bozo. Basically everyone had a degree, and everyone made atleast $100k. I personally made about $225k but as I said, I was pretty good. I know a person in Bay area car sales making $300k+. I assume there are many others. I assume you agree a McDonald's employee is not going to close accountants and…

It looks like it was luxury brand dealership?

A German brand luxury dealership yes, but honestly just about everything applies the same at a Chevy dealership. The pay per vehicle is less on average, but the vehicles and customers are so much easier to deal with that you sell more per hour worked in my opinion.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#200

Post by quickthrower2 »

yashap wrote: post #39
NhanH wrote: post #18

I adore pg’s essay. But this time something is tripping my spider sense, so I had to take a closer look (at my spider sense, and a bit on the essay too). This is the first time an essay feels like a sale pitch. Specifically, a sale pitch for YC. I’ve read pg’s essay about YC for about 15 years, and this is the first one I have that feeling. This one is a bit too abstract. I’m getting the idea that YC can help founder…

Strongly agree, this is one of PG’s worst essays IMO (I’m also generally a fan of his essays). On top of it feeling sales-y, it really gives the vibe of someone who DOESN’T listen to users. There’s essentially nothing concrete that he’s learned from users in this essay, despite that supposedly being the topic, just “they have similar problems and don’t know how to prioritize.”

He could have spilled the beans about what the top problems founders have. These are probably covered in the online startup course YC runs though - so not a "secret" but maybe he didn't want this to be a startup advice piece, but more abstract.
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