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Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

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Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#191

Post by ntp85 »

rchaud wrote: post #120
4oo4 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, I think that's the most compelling reason why they should implement RCS. The reporter had a huge missed opportunity not to bring this up. If you want to have adults peer pressure each other with emotional manipulation to buy your product, that's disgusting, but fine, you have the right to do that. However there's a huge ethical line that gets crossed when that's done to children. Teaching kids and teens that…

Kids suck. iMessage didn't invent bullying. It's just the latest in a long line of arbitrary identifiers of status. If it wasn't the iPhone, it would be the brand of shoes they wore.

Be that as it may, as opposed to the brand of shoes they (or their parents) bought, there is something that can be done to prevent this bullying at least.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#192

Post by rcarmo »

As someone who works in the telco industry and spent a lot of time dealing with SMS and MMS, I actually find RCS to be almost as klunky. But as an European whose family and friends mostly use WhatsApp (and occasionally Signal), I think it’s time is past.

Sure, Google would (assuming they’re finally settling their messaging strategy) very much like to have full parity with iMessage, and they have been feeding carriers the notion that they might even get some extra revenue out of it, but for most Android users, even SMS doesn’t matter anymore.

A note on the carrier angle: if you have an iPhone and a flat data plan, iMessage can’t be billed. But if you have to have an RCS gateway, then you can bill on a per-message basis again, even if SMS pricing (at least en Europe) has gone sub-cent.

That is what Google has been trying to lobby on, regardless of their outspoken stance on interoperability…

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#193

Post by rcarmo »

rcarmo wrote: post #192

As someone who works in the telco industry and spent a lot of time dealing with SMS and MMS, I actually find RCS to be almost as klunky. But as an European whose family and friends mostly use WhatsApp (and occasionally Signal), I think it’s time is past. Sure, Google would (assuming they’re finally settling their messaging strategy) very much like to have full parity with iMessage, and they have been feeding carriers…

No post body was provided.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#194

Post by nojito »

Nomentatus wrote: post #185
nojito wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't have a monopoly of mobile devices.

Please read the comment of mine you are replying to. This was anticipated and answered after "FRO", which stands for "answers to frequently raised objections."

The moment you move the definition from monopoly to "formidable" market power you start the slippery slope you can never get of.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#195

Post by pwinnski »

colinmhayes wrote: post #169
pwinnski wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To which business practice are you referring? a) developing a messaging product, then not porting it to your biggest competitor? b) declining to implement a mediocre standard at your biggest competitor's behest? The last major US carrier finally deployed RCS this year, some smaller carriers around the world still do not support it, and it notably requires carrier participation, unlike iMessage. c) ??? It isn't as if…

iMessage purposefully kneecaps communication with non-apple devices. They are trying, and succeeding, to make it extremely cumbersome to text androids. I can't blame them, it's an incredibly successful strategy that has locked me into their ecosystem at the very least. But it's also obviously anti-competitive.

I'm not seeing it. I can text phones running Android just fine.

I can't use new carrier-dependent features when texting Android phones, but Verizon Android users couldn't use those new features either until a couple of months ago, so I'm not sure how upset I should be about Apple still not supporting that. I don't think I would call it "cumbersome," let alone "extremely cumbersome."

I see no artificial restrictions on communicating with Android devices. Nothing is blocked, nothing is available but restricted, so I don't think "kneecapped" is the right word here.

They are not investing the effort to support a new thing, Google's umpteenth effort at messaging, which requires carrier dependence and undermines end-to-end encryption. Some people might find that unfortunate, but I don't think "refusing to implement new service" is the same as "kneecapping communication," personally.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#196

Post by pwinnski »

colinmhayes wrote: post #171
lotsofpulp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know a single person in the USA that does not use WhatsApp. It must be older Americans who have zero international connections that are oblivious to other chat apps. Asians, Latinos, Europeans, Africans, Canadians, everyone is using WhatsApp (or iMessage). No one would pay for exorbitant international SMS/MMS costs.

I do not know a single person in the USA that does use whatsApp. Everyone is either on iMessage or facebook messenger with a few on signal.

That says something about the people you know, but not much about people in the USA.

I have never used Facebook Messenger and don't know anyone who does (although... how would I, since I don't have a Facebook account?), but I use WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and iMessage.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#197

Post by colinmhayes »

pwinnski wrote: post #196
colinmhayes wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know a single person in the USA that does use whatsApp. Everyone is either on iMessage or facebook messenger with a few on signal.

That says something about the people you know, but not much about people in the USA. I have never used Facebook Messenger and don't know anyone who does (although... how would I, since I don't have a Facebook account?), but I use WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and iMessage.

Maybe that says something about the people you know, but not much about the people in the USA.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#198

Post by colinmhayes »

pwinnski wrote: post #195
colinmhayes wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage purposefully kneecaps communication with non-apple devices. They are trying, and succeeding, to make it extremely cumbersome to text androids. I can't blame them, it's an incredibly successful strategy that has locked me into their ecosystem at the very least. But it's also obviously anti-competitive.

I'm not seeing it. I can text phones running Android just fine. I can't use new carrier-dependent features when texting Android phones, but Verizon Android users couldn't use those new features either until a couple of months ago, so I'm not sure how upset I should be about Apple still not supporting that. I don't think I would call it "cumbersome," let alone "extremely cumbersome." I see no artificial restrictions o…

> I can text phones running Android just fine.

I don't agree. Waiting ten plus seconds for each text to send is not a viable way to have a conversation. Anything beyond 5 or so texts becomes unbearbale.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#199

Post by slowmovintarget »

4oo4 wrote: post #111
rchaud wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an issue anywhere in the world except the US, where apparently school kids can get bullied if their texts in group chats are the wrong colour.

Agreed, I think that's the most compelling reason why they should implement RCS. The reporter had a huge missed opportunity not to bring this up. If you want to have adults peer pressure each other with emotional manipulation to buy your product, that's disgusting, but fine, you have the right to do that. However there's a huge ethical line that gets crossed when that's done to children. Teaching kids and teens that…

I don't think that's the right takeaway.

I think the bigger issue is that we let kids create their own social structure in schools (in the US) where in-group out-group dynamics include bullying over what color your texts are, what clothes you are wearing, what songs you listen to... etc.

School culture should be about academic achievement, and controlled and led by teachers. It works that way in other schools systems. Grown ups actually place limits on bad behaviors of children, with the full support of parents.

In this case, that might mean not giving kids personal multimedia devices, and not permitting their use on school grounds at all.

Re: Tim Cook's response to Android texting compatibility: 'buy your mom an iPhone'

#200

Post by pwinnski »

colinmhayes wrote: post #197
pwinnski wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That says something about the people you know, but not much about people in the USA. I have never used Facebook Messenger and don't know anyone who does (although... how would I, since I don't have a Facebook account?), but I use WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and iMessage.

Maybe that says something about the people you know, but not much about the people in the USA.

Indeed, that is entirely the point!
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