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At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

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Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#191

Post by pleb_nz »

hef19898 wrote: post #177
shakezula wrote: post #92

Years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I worked nights at the time, and the office to make the payment at had very strange hours because it was from a tiny town. My schedule made it difficult to make it over to the office during open hours, and one of the times I tried it was closed randomly over lunch because again, small town. (I learned later there was only one person who ran the whole office.) A day after my speedin…

You cannot pay your tickets by wiring the money?

Your bank app doesn't have shortcuts to pay fines and taxes?

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#192

Post by standardUser »

DisjointedHunt wrote: post #172
standardUser wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impure drugs are a consequence of drug prohibition.

Synthetics are more potent and technically the opposite of impure. They’re also sourced from China, a geopolitical adversary where political figures routinely point to the opium wars and revenge for that period on the west.

I don't get your point. If we want to save lives, let's stop forcing people to buy drugs from black markets. Lives will be saved if people aren't forced to buy unknown drugs and essentially "guess" what the right dose might be. That's how most deaths from illegal drugs occur.

There is a separate issue of doctors over-prescribing dangerous drugs and people abusing those drugs. I think preventing those overdoses and deaths takes a totally different approach.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#193

Post by tluyben2 »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #94
standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

Plenty of countries, especially in Asia, but also the UAE and possibly others, have successfully stopped nearly all drug use and trade with heavy-handed policies. You may not like what it took to get done, but it did work. I'm not advocating for the heavy-handed approach, but it's intellectually dishonest to say that it can't work. Also, the other countries have done it with a much smaller imprisonment per capita.

> Plenty of countries, especially in Asia, but also the UAE and possibly others, have successfully stopped nearly all drug use

What nonsense is this? Countries with capital punishment on drugs like thailand, Philippines and singapore (and before malaysia who cancelled the death penalty but are still strict) are rife with dope; you can buy it everywhere; I mean it is literally shoved in your face on every corner. Which countries are you talking about? I been to many, I only drink (by the way; a dangerous, addictive harddrug; people tend to forget alcohol as drug), but I got offered everywhere, all the time. And there are many native users, you can see them all over the place.

UAE I don't know; I would never go there.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#194

Post by otikik »

unstatusthequo wrote: post #55
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Every day I find new reason to believe the American penal system unconscionable. Not only is slavery permitted, the US is the subject of the ire of the United Nations over it (the ILO, specifically). For-profit prisons with state minimum occupancy clauses. Charging prisoners for their time there. And one of the highest incarceration levels and worst recidivism rates in the world. What exactly is the point of any of t…

Oh come on now. There are MUCH worse prison and criminal justice systems. Let me name a few where I’d not want to be: 1) all of Russia; 2) Sabaneta Prison, Maracaibo, Venezuela; 3) North Korean Camp 22; 4) Diyarbakir Prison, Turkey; 5) Gitarama Prison, Rwanda; 6) Gldani Prison, Georgia; 7) Ciudad Barrios Prison, El Salvador There are many more. These above make the pay to stay seem tame in terms of impact.

It sounds like you are saying that since the US system is not worse than Rwanda, it doesn’t need to change.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#195

Post by consp »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #182
consp wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen... I'll let you figure out your mistake from there.

Those stats are based on a tiny fraction of the US prison population. From elsewhere on that site, that agency is responsible for "158,012 Inmates".

Only statistic which I could find on short notice (literally first google result ...) but considering it's federal, I trust a small sample size more than random numbers from someone on the internet without quotation, especially if they are off by an order of magnitude from other countries.

The clue is: It looks like the numbers are reversed which would make a lot more sense.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#196

Post by quesera »

camdenlock wrote: post #176

Counterpoint question to most of the comments I’m seeing here: Who then is supposed to pay for a criminal’s stay in prison? Law-abiding tax-payers? Laws that SEND people to prison (like drug possession laws) can be fairly painted as ridiculous, but when it comes to paying for the actual prison infrastructure… it seems a lot less ethically clear.

> Who then is supposed to pay for a criminal’s stay in prison? Law-abiding tax-payers?

Absolutely yes.

If society is improved by the removal of these individuals from free association therein, and the decision is made to do so, then society should be responsible for the costs necessary to make it happen.

Cost of enforcement should be a limiting factor on the expansion of laws. If nothing else, it is a proxy for the number of people criminalized, which is a measure of social acceptability (and/or lack of negative impact) of the behaviour itself.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#197

Post by nightski »

standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

Then why are the places with the least restrictive drug laws arguably where the problem is the worst by a large margin? If these laws don't work at all. Not saying I fully support them or anything, I am just curious what your thoughts are.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#198

Post by rendall »

camdenlock wrote: post #176

Counterpoint question to most of the comments I’m seeing here: Who then is supposed to pay for a criminal’s stay in prison? Law-abiding tax-payers? Laws that SEND people to prison (like drug possession laws) can be fairly painted as ridiculous, but when it comes to paying for the actual prison infrastructure… it seems a lot less ethically clear.

Oh, no, it is extremely clear, ethically. Charging someone $249 per day for years is literally extortionate. Even a short sentence can destroy someone's opportunities for life.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#199

Post by impossiblefork »

smabie wrote: post #136
yeeyeeyee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Supporters say the collections are a legitimate way for states to recoup millions of taxpayer dollars spent on prisons and jails. Wait there are supporters of this? You're telling me if I asked 100 people on the street, there'd be someone that said "oh yeah this is a pretty fair and reasonable law to charge the inmates 5-star hotel prices"??

What 5-star hotel costs $250/day? I want to go there

There's a bunch in the Canary Islands, with prices like that or below. Even one on Fuertaventura for 200 USD per night.

I haven't been to them, so I can't say whether they're up to the level one would expect, but they're listed as five star hotels.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#200

Post by pan69 »

tmpz22 wrote: post #40
standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

There are over 2 MILLION prisoners in the US prison population of a population of 330M. This gives the USA the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. The next four? * Rwanda * Turkmenistan * El Salvador * Cuba [1]: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarcera...

I hate posting videos but this QI fragment goes over some of the numbers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHz2Hmq7soo

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