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Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

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Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#191

Post by smolder »

rlv-dan wrote: post #55
dsr_ wrote: post #12

This is pretty similar to the policy at my company: you get a Mac, unless you specifically request a Linux laptop. If you need Windows for testing, Microsoft makes VM images available with a browser pre-installed at https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v...

As a long time Windows user, it would take me a considerable amount of time to get used to the operating system and all applications and utilities that I need to be productive. Not saying Windows is great, but it works for me. And I'm pretty sure they don't hire people to learn an operating system.

I don't think it's hard to adjust, especially if you are surrounded by other apple users who can give you tips like the command-shift-4/5 screen grab shortcuts, etc. Perhaps more important is a familiarity with unix style command line, which goes a long way in macOS.

With decent Linux knowledge I think being issued a MBP at my first job out of college was better for my productivity than a windows machine would have been within a week or so, even as a long time Windows user. Windows has generally always had a higher frequency of annoyances.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#192

Post by bityard »

horsawlarway wrote: post #9

I'm no fan of Windows myself, but I find this a fairly bad policy. If nothing else - what's not used is not tested. And if you expect any real population of users to be using Windows machines with your products, you should have developers/PMs/QA/support interacting with your products using Windows machines. I see this as: We're saving a bit of money and making ITs life easier, and in exchange users will get a worse p…

If you would have kept reading, you would have noticed that employees can apply for an exception to the policy.

So if, for example, you are a UX dev and need to test your CSS on Edge, they have a process that allows you to do that.

And it's not "just a bit of money", Microsoft's enterprise product licensing is truly onerous. It's almost a career unto itself just to make sense of it, and it requires a non-trivial amount of infrastructure to support.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#193

Post by jupp0r »

Xylakant wrote: post #45
gsich wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Gitlab is not a Windows application per se. Either you use a browser or git on the cli.

GitHub for example does have desktop apps that allow using GitHub for less CLI-inclined folks. This allows integrating people that are not primarily developers into your GitHub-based workflows with less hassle, and fosters collaboration across those boundaries. Git for windows is also notoriously different when it comes to edge cases, so in Gitlabs place I‘d be absolutely happy to have developers that use that OS as…

It’s somewhat rare for developers to be willing to do that though.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#194

Post by azangru »

Diggsey wrote: post #66
jchw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, Gitlab is a web platform. It's pretty easy to test how it's going to work on different platforms without needing full machines. Heck, you can even just get Microsoft Edge binaries on macOS and Linux if you want to test Edge. But failing that, VMs are pretty sufficient.

Tell that to the FE devs who add `overflow: scroll` everywhere and don't spot the problem...

This can be fixed by toggling a single MacOS setting to make the scrollbars always visible so that FE devs can feel the pain they are causing to their non-Mac using customers. Can be included into onboarding process. No need for a real windows machine just on that account.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#195

Post by xtracto »

Gitlab OpenSource is one of those software that I wish would go the way of LibreOffice/MariaDB: I wish that some foundation took the good open-source part and forked it to implement a real, full, no strings attached open source application.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#196

Post by rosmax_1337 »

I believe:

1) The reasons shown as to why Windows is prohibited are essentially parallel construction.

2) The real reason is because someone has an agenda against Windows and Microsoft.

3) This is quite alright. It might be a net loss in the short term for everyone, but a net win in the long term for everyone. Microsoft has a lot of bad stuff coming their way, for good reason.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#197

Post by huslage »

horsawlarway wrote: post #9

I'm no fan of Windows myself, but I find this a fairly bad policy. If nothing else - what's not used is not tested. And if you expect any real population of users to be using Windows machines with your products, you should have developers/PMs/QA/support interacting with your products using Windows machines. I see this as: We're saving a bit of money and making ITs life easier, and in exchange users will get a worse p…

Windows is a specific set of skills that takes a lot of people to do properly at any scale. The dedicated resources required are essentially a drain on the whole of IT. My company also bans Windows for the same reasons.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#198

Post by jupp0r »

jeffwask wrote: post #181
muttled wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most places I've worked at (Windows shops largely) had management tools that worked well on Windows but not as well on other devices. The IT staff was skilled largely in Windows, as well. The biggest argument against other OS options was that we simply did not have the tools and experience to effectively manage the other options. It's a valid argument, and seemed disingenuous to take digs at the other OS options when…

Microsoft Windows with AzureAd and Intune provides a suite of tools for managing your fleet of laptops at little to no additional cost. It's honestly so much for free that running any other suite of laptops becomes arduous and expensive. It all just works out of the box and it's easy to bolt things on. The viruses and malware argument is ludicrous if you do any amount of end point protection. Apple is a walled garden…

You are missing an important point: engineers want to use the tools that work best for them. They don’t care much about the things they can’t see. Taking a job with a super restrictive IT environment that would prevent me from doing my job effectively would be a deterrent to work for that company. I know many people who feel similar to this. The opportunity cost of not being able to hire those people or giving them other incentives to alleviate those concerns is easily orders of magnitude more expensive than just buying a device management as a service solution for other OSes.

I’ve rarely seen people being very enthusiastic Windows users btw.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#199

Post by detaro »

pjmlp wrote: post #188
detaro wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtual machines aren't that magic I'd say, but sure, if you think they are pixie dust, then I guess its pixie dust...

No Windows allowed....

again, "on company laptops". Surely the concept of remotely accessing VMs is not new to you?

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#200

Post by dijit »

rlv-dan wrote: post #55
dsr_ wrote: post #12

This is pretty similar to the policy at my company: you get a Mac, unless you specifically request a Linux laptop. If you need Windows for testing, Microsoft makes VM images available with a browser pre-installed at https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v...

As a long time Windows user, it would take me a considerable amount of time to get used to the operating system and all applications and utilities that I need to be productive. Not saying Windows is great, but it works for me. And I'm pretty sure they don't hire people to learn an operating system.

I understand where you’re coming from because for me it’s the same when I use windows.

Everything is in weird places and the OS feels like it’s fighting me at every level.

Unfortunately a lot of workplaces truly enforce Windows use.

I am a little tickled that this is the first time I’ve ever heard of windows being anything other than the default or only choice.

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