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The endless search for a crypto use case

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Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#191

Post by cuteboy19 »

sputknick wrote: post #142

Disclaimer: I was an early investor, and still "hodl" crypto, so I'm not without my bias. Dating a viable use case versus other tech depends on when you set the creation date. The internet wasn't commercially viable for its first 25 years. Also we are getting closer and closer to a viable use case for the most basic use case for crypto, payments. Solana Pay and a few others have working products, the problem is netwo…

>If we can reach a future where I can buy groceries without paying 2% to Visa

We already are living in this future in India. If I want to pay for a 10₹ ($0.13) chai I simply scan the QR in my favourite payments app and enter my UPI pin. The money is transferred to their bank instantly and it is completely free! UPI is so ubiquitous that even most shops in villages have it by now.

Ironically UPI is far more decentralised because while Solana completely goes down every few months, the UPI network has never entirely gone down.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#192

Post by SwanRonson »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #95
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

>>These people got blocked by traditional payment providers but still received crypto. I thought their crypto payments were tracked (open ledger) and basically nixxed? I.e. this was the grand counter-example of crypto use case :- We can discuss our personal opinion on the Canadian protests of Winter of 2022, but I strongly believe that for average citizen, Crypto payments leave a HUGE exposure / attack surface. YES,…

Personal opinions aside it is a valid use case. They can track the wallet and they will, but they cannot close/lock the wallet as they did bank accounts. As you’ve implied there are methods to achieve anonymity but they require technical knowledge. If this becomes a commonly understood use case it will likely become easier for the average person.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#193

Post by colordrops »

aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #190
colordrops wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your story is an anecdote, and an interesting one, but not sure if your conclusions are valid. Crypto is used in China for subverting government oversight, and they are far more advanced than Bosnia at digital control.

Not always oversight, but for subverting government controls — note that these are very different.

What's the difference?

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#194

Post by notahacker »

nemothekid wrote: post #133
game-of-throws wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

I would place "trust in government" with "lives in a hegemonic superpower". You can fully understand the use cases while also believing that they aren't that compelling unless you live in global south. The fact is there is no reason to believe holding crypto would retain value if the united states went through an country-ending economic crisis; it more likely that your crypto would also just become equally worthless…

Also, you can fully understand the hypothetical use cases in the global south whilst being aware that crypto competes with hegemonic superpowers as a way to store wealth there too (and other stable currencies, and lots of other things that hold value and are easy to barter with) in those markets, and generally has fewer or worse on/off ramps for the average person there. People aren't sending money to Coinbase Global Inc because they haven't had access to international money transfers or the ability to store their wealth in anything other than rapidly-depreciating pesos before.

I mean, I'll happily concede that cryptocurrency was something that was actually stable in value, was widely accepted and understood in local markets in the global south so you could buy food, save for your kids education and bribe the border guard with it, then it would be even better than gold earrings, black market banknote swaps, hawala or trusting you would be able to access your offshore account in future. But it isn't, the fact that some people would dearly like it to be that way doesn't make it that way (especially not the "stable in value" part), and there isn't an obvious route for it to be that way.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#195

Post by [deleted] »

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

[deleted]

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#196

Post by yaseer »

karlkeefer wrote: post #105
yaseer wrote: post #39

I'm reminded of the pictures of New York in 1900 and 1913. Within those 13 years, the car had changed the world. https://www.businessinsider.com/5th-ave-1900-vs-1913-2011-3?... The iPhone and smartphone revolution clearly did the same, last decade. We're now 14 years into Bitcoin. Is it ever likely to change the world the same way?

That's a pretty high bar Benz made the first car in 1886, which in your analogy means today is 1900. I will be curious to see how crypto holds up in recession or under monetary crisis. One of the reasons it was created hasn't really been tested, since the economy in the west hasn't faced a major crisis since its invention. It seems plausible (if unlikely) that external events could push crypto adoption into more "nor…

For the record, I don't think crypto is useless, I just don't think it's hitting that bar for a transformative technology. It's proponents certainly do describe it as potentially transformative or revolutionary.

Yes, I'm aware the dates of invention don't quite align, and the time window is cherry-picked for dramatic effect. But it's food for thought.

Nobody was debating the utility of cars and phones 14 years later. With crypto, it's like we're still looking for something as fundamental as an essential use case.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#197

Post by NikolaNovak »

colordrops wrote: post #183
NikolaNovak wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm originally from Bosnia / Ex-Yugoslavia. Experienced hyperinflation, experienced civil war, experienced buying bread with 200,000 dinars one year and 2,000,000 next year etc. Experienced scary people with guns knocking at your door. My family and their ancestors all lost all their money and possessions numerous times over the last 100 years, including in the mid-90's. And yet, I feel it's the people IN position of…

Your story is an anecdote, and an interesting one, but not sure if your conclusions are valid. Crypto is used in China for subverting government oversight, and they are far more advanced than Bosnia at digital control.

Absolutely and fair point: My story is indeed an anecdote; but it was not strictly meant to address the question of whether Crypto is useful or not in escaping government oversight, but the specific hypothesis in the post I replied to:

  "Those who haven't personally experienced #1 (such as world superpowers, the wealthy/"elite") seem not to be able to grasp the benefits. "
As such, I wanted to provide a counter-point/perspective, anecdotal as it may be.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#198

Post by lern_too_spel »

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

The article directly addresses this. These use cases vanish as soon as the government regulates the onramps and offramps.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#199

Post by NikolaNovak »

SwanRonson wrote: post #192
NikolaNovak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>These people got blocked by traditional payment providers but still received crypto. I thought their crypto payments were tracked (open ledger) and basically nixxed? I.e. this was the grand counter-example of crypto use case :- We can discuss our personal opinion on the Canadian protests of Winter of 2022, but I strongly believe that for average citizen, Crypto payments leave a HUGE exposure / attack surface. YES,…

Personal opinions aside it is a valid use case. They can track the wallet and they will, but they cannot close/lock the wallet as they did bank accounts. As you’ve implied there are methods to achieve anonymity but they require technical knowledge. If this becomes a commonly understood use case it will likely become easier for the average person.

I believe in this case they did close/lock the wallet, as it was held by the exchange. How far they go to recoup money that did make it to individuals is up to the attorney general and courts and politicians to decide - but critically, means are extremely there. It is empathically and trivially known who the recipients are. This is the part that feels like we are intentionally ignoring - eventually crypto intersects with the real world.

There were technically superior and more anonymous ways to do that kind of particular transaction of course. But we may differ as to what "average person" is and what their technical competence will be in the near to medium future. I believe average person still has tremendous phishing and scam risk with a regular, regulated, fairly static, designed for ease of use, documented, go-to-branch-and-we'll-guide-you-through-it electronic banking. I am skeptical of our ability to create a safe path for the average person through the dynamic, unregulated, ever-changing, technically complex, myriad-clients-and-zillion-methods-and-gazillion-exchanges all chock-full of scammers world of crypto.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#200

Post by lern_too_spel »

scythingshepard wrote: post #4

The only use, which is enough, is to subvert those who claim authority over others. A specific example is committing crimes: buying or selling drugs, money laundering, tax evasion, etc.. but maybe its building a nest egg to help escape an abusive relationship or God knows what. Hiding money from some sort of extortion. Most "crypto" isn't hidden, it isn't crypto. It's gimmicky marketing. Not currency either. Fully fu…

The article addresses this. Cryptocurrency cannot subvert that authority, as the law applies to it as well.
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