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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#191

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

[deleted]

Re: Linux 5.19

#192
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unofficial motto of the Linux kernel is "Don't break userspace" so semver wouldn't be useful.

There's value, albeit less in the minor vs patch distinction I think. So you could imagine a world in which SemVer came first, Linux uses it, and we're on 1.5.19 but usually drop the 1. because we've agreed there'll never be a v2.

That's pretty much the state of the 3.x releases, but at some point numbers got big.

Re: Linux 5.19

#193
post #68
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

I used an iBook G3/G4 for years as a primary development laptop running Linux, and I think your recollection here is a bit off. The state of it was that: - There were numerous laptops with near-full Linux support, the Apple hardware wasn't categorically better when it came to that. - The power usage of x86 CPUs was atrocious at the time compared to PPC. Now history is repeating with Apple's M[12] line. Therefore peop…

I used an iBook G3/G4 12" for several years with linux. I remember the G3 was supported completely out of the box. I loved it: it was small, battery lasted pretty long (I did spend some time fine tuning laptop-mode-tools), suspend-to-ram was working flawlessly and from what I remember all hardware was supported, including 3d graphics (ati radeon). For the G4, I remember there were some issues to get the wireless card working when it came out (Broadcom hardware I think), but the rest of the hardware also worked out of the box.

Re: Linux 5.19

#194
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am a devoted fan of Thinkpad laptops (they are better than Apple MacBooks because of — at least as an option — non-glare screens, keyboards and soft-touch non-wrist-cutting palmrest: two/three most important factors for a portable machine imho), that's only partially true, and rarely with a new generation of hardware. Eg. I remember getting Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen early on in the cycle (I've also got 5th a…

The whole S3 sleep fiasco is the stuff of nightmares. I have a gen 6 X1 Carbon too and I've gotten it sleeping very well. I also have a Dell XPS 15 that I love but... it's been 2 years since it was brand new and it's still stuck on S2 "idle". As I understand it, Microsoft wants it this way so they can maintain network connectivity. My major gripe with the Lenovo is the 16 gigs of RAM soldered on the board. It's so ni…

> Microsoft wants it this way so they can maintain network connectivity

I liked coolness of "Connected Standby" - laptop sleeping, but playing music over bluetooth. Other than coolness, cannot say I found much use of it - may be my ssh didn't terminate? Don't remember.

Re: Linux 5.19

#195
post #92
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

While I am a devoted fan of Thinkpad laptops (they are better than Apple MacBooks because of — at least as an option — non-glare screens, keyboards and soft-touch non-wrist-cutting palmrest: two/three most important factors for a portable machine imho), that's only partially true, and rarely with a new generation of hardware. Eg. I remember getting Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen early on in the cycle (I've also got 5th a…

Quick note about the screen glaring - my very first action upon unpacking any Apple notebook is to apply a matte screen protector (the purist may wince). I'd recommend a screen protector on any expensive purchase and the matte one has all but eliminated the glare for me.

Re: Linux 5.19

#196
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just bought a Thinkpad because my home's other Windows machine died. The laptop is ok in general , and I love the mate screen, but the black plastic body is just horrible. It feels as if it's going to break just by opening the screen. Does apple have some kind of patent for the aluminium body?

Aluminium is heavy, cold, dents and expensive. Plastic is better in most ways for a laptop shell.

Aluminium has the best property. It conducts heat. Plastic laptops are saunas.

Re: Linux 5.19

#197
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. The 10th gen X1 Carbon has basically nothing functional unless you are running master kernel, and even then it's not completely there. It's just an unusable paperweight at the moment, the OLED screen is pretty though.

As a long-time Thinkpad user, it usually helps to not go for the latest/greatest, but even so, the time between release and 99% working linux is in the region of months with Thinkpads, whereas it can be years-never with Mac. I had some issues with my AMD X13 when getting it new - but they weren't show-stopping, just annoying, and they got ironed out over the next 6 months.

But that supports the point OP made above. Each generation of Lenovo laptop changes out lots of parts (presumably based on changing prices and supply contracts). Apple laptop hardware tends to be stable over time.

Re: Linux 5.19

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care. It's kind of strange if you're against undocumented software but still run on undocumented hardware. I'm hoping the providers of the tools I use can see this too.

Hardware doesn't change. The Linux kernel and related userspace move fast. Proprietary kernel drivers are painful for users and developers alike. Nvidia has held back the entire desktop and been a massive PITA for laptops.

I find it hard to believe that Nvidia has held back the entire desktop, when >50% of computers don't use Nvidia GPUs.

Re: Linux 5.19

#199
post #47

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

Don't understand what's so great about it. Pretty much every amd64 laptop works great with Linux. I've had Lenovos, Dells, Huaweis, HPs, etc. Not to mention laptops designed specifically to target Linux like the Framework laptop.

I'll agree with you here. I had a MacBook pro (2015) and switched to a system76 popOS linux notebook (8th gen intel, its really a "clevo" OEMed notebook). Its not quite as well built, but the Matt screen is nice, the keyboard and trackpad are good enough, and it has NVIDIA acceleration. Yeah, when pushed the fans spin up, the battery life if mediocre at best, but it can game (thanks steam) and its really fast. Its really not bad at all.

I got an Linux AMD laptop for work this year, much better on the battery and still very fast. Its been great.

Re: Linux 5.19

#200
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

> regular Lenovo laptop This is true for what we nerds call a "lenovo laptop" (so mostly T series). Install, everything works. Lenovo also sells a bunch of cheapish plasticky laptops that look like some random noname chinese OEM manufactured and lenovo just put a sticker on... well, linux support there is a bit hit and miss.

> Lenovo also sells a bunch of cheapish plasticky laptops that look like some random noname chinese OEM manufactured and lenovo just put a sticker on... well, linux support there is a bit hit and miss.

They look like that because they basically are.

There's really two companies called Lenovo. One of them makes the ThinkPad T, X, P and one of the budget lines (L or E, always forget which, we don't use either). And the ThinkStations.

The other makes the IdeaPads and the other ThinkPad budget line which lacks the great keyboard and Linux compatibility, it just looks a bit like a ThinkPad. And the Legion gaming stuff etc.

They're really two different companies with different factories. We have a global contract with Lenovo and we can't even order the consumer laptops. We wanted to get some Legions because some of our dev teams prefer the Legion with RTX over the ThinkPad P which come with Quadros. But they simply can't sell them to us. I think RTX came to the ThinkPad P since anyway, not sure because I'm not involved anymore.

It seems one company because as a consumer you can buy all of them from Lenovo.com but that's not even really Lenovo, it's a third party reseller called DigitalRiver.

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