A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves • Hacker News Board

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#191

Post by jollybean » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

jtode wrote: post #186

pyuser583 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best, you prove that the real issue here isn’t ethnic identity but social class. You might be right. What was the fatality rate at Eton during this time?

Unless an out-group was being kept in a low social class on the basis of their ethnic identity. The entire residential school system was about ethnic identity - removing theirs and making them take on ours, by taking children away from their families and handing them over to religious authorities. There's a whole bunch of people in this discussion thread who are clearly not Canadian and clearly not informed about thi…

The people railing are Canadian, and they are doing so because they know they have been lied to by the press. The 'problem' are those who continue to misrepresent the situation and fail to understand for some reason (especially after been given the facts) that this is going on.

Sending kids to boarding school where mostly people learned to speak English and do basic math - is not the same as sending kids to camps to kill them.

The liars want to have us believe they're essentially or historically the same thing, when there's no truth there at all.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#192

Post by YourFriend87 » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #170

YourFriend87 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

"One sees cartoons of pregnant men, and yet that is impossible for a biological man. True or false?" To interject in this conversation: if this sentence really is "taboo" I'd argue it's perhaps because you are not using the currently accepted term, like a person who insists on saying "negro" instead of "African American". Or perhaps it's taboo because you bring it up at weird moments. I just watched an episode of Fam…

Is it "taboo" or isn't it? Maybe just skip the ad hominem stuff and the silly analogies.

> you are not using the currently accepted term

I think you mean the term that you use. Most humans continue to speak of "men" and "women" as those terms have always been used, with the understanding that exceptions do occur.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#193

Post by jollybean » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #143

jollybean wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the opposite, it's a high quality piece from a high quality site. This comment, which offers no argument for illustrating why the piece is misleading or unfactual, only hurts your credibility. I myself was deeply moved about the 'grave discovery' revelations in Canada, and after just a bit of investigation I was 'shocked' to discover that the narratives were misrepresentations to the point of lying. A short comp…

Please be aware, the entirety of the linked article and my statements below are both true. There was a radar scan that revealed regular human-shaped anomalies in the soil. Follow up investigations have reaffirmed that these anomalies were not equipment dysfunction. In all of the digging that has taken place at this site no bodies have been uncovered. No digging has taken place at this site. To the best of my knowledg…

I appreciate your specifics, but the nature of the article here is not about the very detailed facts about an 'unearthing' but rather, how the information is being presented in the press.

Broadly, the story is 'kids killed in aboriginal genocide, bodies discovered all over the place' - which is not the case at all, it's much more complicated than that, and though there are surely newly discovered bodies here and there, most are not, and nobody was killed on purpose in some kind of genocidal act.

It's about 'popular narratives' vs. 'nuanced reality' - not so much 'a small detail vs. another small detail'.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#194

Post by ZeroGravitas » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

AinderS wrote: post #185

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the graves only exist if the rate was higher? You seem determined to downplay these graves, but the kettle logic of "these graves don't exist and also they do exist and we all know about them but they aren't a problem" undermines your argument.

Are you seriously going to pretend that these suspected graves aren't being used to allege that the treatment of natives in Canada was worse than previously believed?

Yes? I think people are just generally a little underinforned about this kind of stuff, so the actual details can be shocking.

And some people still overreact and try to cover it up and whitewash it.

The US Civil war being about slavery still seems to be considered an eleborate hoax to some people.

And they do the same "yes well the centuries of slavery, death, rape and murder is all true, and well established historical fact obviously, but ! So basically they're overreacting and undermining our great nation by talking about stuff that happened." and it's cringe in both cases.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#195

Post by the_only_law » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #158

munk-a wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a story about Canada - please familiarize yourself with the topic before repeating your talking point.

The story is about Canada, the phenomenon is applicable to society at large. Please familiarize yourself with how adults comment and have conversations before replying to others.

> Please familiarize yourself with how adults comment and have conversations before replying to others.

Make a retarded comment and condescend people who reply. Got it!

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#196

Post by ZeroGravitas » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:32 PM UTC

YourFriend87 wrote: post #190

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your simplistic definitions, yes there are. But real life is very complicated and so people who actually care about this because it directly affects them aren't so quick to draw absolute lines: https://interactadvocates.org/faq/ > Nature doesn’t decide where the category of “male” ends and the category of “intersex” begins, or where the category of “intersex” ends and the category of “female” begins. Humans decide…

Quoted post unavailable.

Most humans have never met someone with red hair. Intersex people are about the same size group as a percentage but possibly more evenly distributed and harder to spot from a distance.

But yeah, 1 in 100 people, that's nothing, I don't care about or even believe in the existence of any group smaller than about 800 million myself, left-handed people only just make the cut at 1 in 10 but everyone else with made up genetic conditions like epilepsy, albinism, red hair or autism, or the mythical people with less than 2 arms and legs, just stop thinking you are special and be normal, that's what I say.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#197

Post by trasz » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 6:35 PM UTC

AinderS wrote: post #183

trasz wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - look at the table summarizing discoveries of bodies, then follow to the sources. Contrary to the article above, those are not “alleged” or “unproven”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamloops_Indian_Residential_Sc... contains no tables, and under the heading " Possible unmarked graves", it says "As of January 2022, no remains had been excavated, leaving the initial claim unverified."

Can’t believe I forgot the link, sorry: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_..., “Investigation of unmarked gravesites“, “Confirmed human remains”.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#198

Post by pyuser583 » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

jtode wrote: post #186

pyuser583 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best, you prove that the real issue here isn’t ethnic identity but social class. You might be right. What was the fatality rate at Eton during this time?

Unless an out-group was being kept in a low social class on the basis of their ethnic identity. The entire residential school system was about ethnic identity - removing theirs and making them take on ours, by taking children away from their families and handing them over to religious authorities. There's a whole bunch of people in this discussion thread who are clearly not Canadian and clearly not informed about thi…

This post is about a false fact pattern being amplified to support a narrative.

This false fact pattern is being amplified on both sides of the border.

My local American newspaper is trying very hard to tell horror stories about local Indian schools.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#199

Post by adamrezich » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 7:31 PM UTC

littlestymaar wrote: post #169

adamrezich wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what issues have you found with the text of the article that makes it unsuitable to be posted here? I've never heard of this publication, but found the article to be an excellent read. I only had vaguely heard about the "mass graves" situation months and months ago and was completely unaware that no bodies have actually been found. this article does a great job of presenting this information, contrasting it with the…

Imagine you find an article on Sputnik talking about The Bucha massacre and in a well written piece presented evidences that it was all made up by Western Media (“contrasting it with the blatantly false NYT reporting on the subject”) should you believe it? But maybe you're not aware of the fact that Sputnik is a Kremlin propaganda platform and you don't see the problem with the well-argued point the author is making.…

unfortunately, these absurd analogies and politico-ideological compliance tests do nothing to convince me of your worldview—you'll have to do better than that.

Re: A media-fueled social panic over unmarked graves

#200

Post by staticman2 » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 7:36 PM UTC

YourFriend87 wrote: post #192

staticman2 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One sees cartoons of pregnant men, and yet that is impossible for a biological man. True or false?" To interject in this conversation: if this sentence really is "taboo" I'd argue it's perhaps because you are not using the currently accepted term, like a person who insists on saying "negro" instead of "African American". Or perhaps it's taboo because you bring it up at weird moments. I just watched an episode of Fam…

Is it "taboo" or isn't it? Maybe just skip the ad hominem stuff and the silly analogies. > you are not using the currently accepted term I think you mean the term that you use. Most humans continue to speak of "men" and "women" as those terms have always been used, with the understanding that exceptions do occur.

To recap: you used the nonstandard term "biological man".

I responded that biological man wasn't the currently accepted term people use.

You then claimed "Most humans continue to speak of "men" and "women" as those terms have always been used" with the term "biological man" mysteriously dropped from the response as if you realized how ridiculous it would sound if you claimed most people went around using the nonstandard term "biological man" but you felt like arguing with me for whatever reason anyway as if I wasn't going to notice you suddenly dropping the nonstandard term you were using when you responded to the statement I made about the nonstandard term you were using.