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The Global Cost of Corrosion

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191–200 of 251 posts

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we should add, "Reconsider" as in, "Reconsider purchasing the item, when it's not needed, or a better alternative exists".

Is there a difference between "reconsider" and "reduce"?

There would be a difference between reducing your use of motor vehicles and reconsidering using them at all if our lifestyle allows us to use an alternative, like an ebike.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that you want to last in sea water? How long? Under what kind of load?

Well, the payload has a 20 year life time. Solar panels, navigational lights, etc. Hopefully very little physical contact with other man made objects. A decade of sea life before some sort of land refurbishment would be a nice value for the excel.

I'd look at the nickel alloys, Inconel 625 and Hastelloy C22 would be a good start. They should be orders of magnitude more corrosion resistant than stainless steel and still have respectable strength. Of course they are more expensive and harder to fabricate.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#193
post #187
post #175

Btw, since this is a common misconception: the cost for repairing / replacing corroded metal actually increases GDP. It's not clear from the article what they mean by 'costs' (they could also mean how many other goods weren't produced because of corrosion damage, which would be lost GDP), but that's something to be aware of.

... came here to say this. I have spent so much more money on stainless and galvanized parts and taken many expensive precautions, followed expensive building practices, etc. due to rust. This was increased economic activity. Not saying it was morally positive but it certainly increased GDP ...

You’re falling victim to the so-called ‘broken windows fallacy’ here. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/broken-window-fa...

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#194

Why aren't bridges and ships made out of stainless steel? Is it too expensive, or not as strong as regular steel?

Stainless steel is not 'rust proof' it is mostly rust retardant, it has a chromium coating that reduces oxidization but does not stop it completely. The more chromium, the better the rust resistant properties. https://www.pennstainless.com/resources/product-information/... Is pretty good stuff and https://www.cralloys.com/alloys/17-chrome/ is possibly better still. If you want (much) better rust resistance than that…

"Stainless steel is not 'rust proof' it is mostly rust retardant, it has a chromium coating that reduces oxidization but does not stop it completely."

Just to be clear ... you can indeed coat things with stainless steel.

However, most stainless steel objects (like screws or bolts or tools, etc.) are stainless throughout - you cannot abrade or scratch into a non-stainless inner core.

This is unlike, for instance, galvanized hardware which is merely steel with a coating over the top. Galvanized items can, indeed, be mechanically altered to reveal non-galvanized material underneath.

As for my grandparents question:

You can, indeed, buy stainless steel beams, rebar[1], etc. They have all the fantastic properties you imagine and are, again, not merely coated like (for instance) galvanized rebar. They are also extremely expensive.

[1] https://www.stainlesssteelrebar.org/

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#195
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW has been caught lying about the capabilities of their cars, then the executives blamed the engineers to cover their asses. If one needs a reason to forget about VW.

VW was the _first_ company selling diesel powered passenger vehicles to be caught lying. Opel/GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Jeep, Renault, Peugeot, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, and Porsche were all later caught somehow skirting diesel emissions testing. Basically all large truck manufacturers did it too. Clean diesel is a myth, it never was a thing and the only reason anyone thought it was was because the entire auto industry w…

Of these other scandals, which other companies have their, "executives blamed the engineers"

That is what I was highlighting. Not, "mistakes were made" but, "And they were, points fingers at scapegoat"

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#196
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, any particular brands or is that across the board? Here we liberally salt our roads as well in winter and in the past cars would not last a decade before falling apart. Now you really have to look to figure out which cars are new, 10 or 20 years old. Rust is - as far as I can see - a solved problem. Not many US cars on the road here though.

Chevrolet and GMC full size pickup trucks and SUVs are probably the worst offenders. Which seems counter intuitive since many of GM's engineering and design happens in northern climates with salted roads. It's not all of GM's vehicles which are subject to this, many do have good corrosion resistance, they just choose to only use such techniques on a subset of the vehicles they produce. For example: https://static.nht…

Just had to get rid of a 2011 Toyota SUV because corrosion on a hydraulic line cascaded to other problems. (Was overall in good shape but some sort of chip or other problem on the line caused issues.)

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#197
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well perhaps "retain" should be added. Making something last longer isn't quite "reduce" or "reuse".

And repair. Repairing always uses fewer resources than making new. While I personally and professionally select use repairable items in lieu of non-repairable ones, I believe that this is not entirely a personal issue. Another r-word to add should be regulation. Without some degree of enforcement, the present set of incentives will continue to worsen the situation.

That's only true if you don't count skilled labor as a "resource". Repairing badly corroded vehicles isn't economically viable because it takes so much work to cut and weld the corroded body and frame parts. So that kind of repair is only done for collector items. Regular cars just get junked and replaced.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import. This is because there's basically no market for used cars older than 5 years in Japan https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.picknbuy24.com/amp/column_1...

There's a huge export market though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_used_vehicle_export... I read that something like 60% of cars registered in NZ are Japanese imports. IMHO Japanese used car exports have a lot of the characteristics of "dumping" (in trade terms) but because there is no local vehicle manufacturing in most of the places they end up, nobody complains.

Yep, a huge number of our cars are Japanese imports. It means we can get a 5 year old Toyota/Mazda for the equivalent of about $6-7000 USD (or cheaper imported privately), which will run for another 150,000km with little difficulty.

We mostly don't have snow and I don't think any region salts their roads, so rust isn't much of an issue with something that new.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#200
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are modern Volvos still better than average for corrosion resistance?

Somewhere in the late 90's early 2000's car manufacturers switched paint processes, typically to a water based paint. That's the point in time where you could see the most clearly which manufacturers had their house in order in terms of weld cleaning, seam coating, basic material procurement and surface protection. Some of them failed horribly, which led to some brands (for instance: Mercedes) having an undisclosed h…

My first car was a ‘96 Nissan Altima. By 2004 when I got it, the paint was worn away on the center of the hood and the top. My family got 3 new cars circa 2010, one of which is an Altima, never had this issue again. Perhaps this is explained by what you’re talking about?

Despite cars being on the road for longer than ever, I feel like I’ve seen far fewer “rust buckets” than in my youth

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