New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers • Hacker News Board

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#191

Post by benreesman » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

CSMastermind wrote: post #145

astura wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought prenups were for couples where one or both parties are bringing assets into the divorce? Like, I'd consider one if I had any real assets or savings beyond my retirement accounts, but at the time I got married I didn't.

Marriage is first and foremost a legal and financial arrangement. When you get married you have the option of writing the agreement between yourself and your partner (a prenup) or just accepting the one-size-fits-all government boiler plate. Maybe you think there's nothing special about your situation. Maybe you think the government rules will work fine enough. Wouldn't you at least like someone to review them with b…

So I’ll annotate your insightful comment.

In many cases and jurisdictions, things like unvested RSUs have never been litigated.

So it’s like, do we want to choose, or roll some dice if it doesn’t go well?

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#192

Post by PopAlongKid » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:25 PM UTC

vecinu wrote: post #52

nickMMM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not personally (still happily) married. My cofounder went through a divorce. He is a divorce lawyer (and his wife at the time a lawyer too). They divided everything smoothly - sounded like it was quite clinical and unemotional from what he told me. Say if you brought assets into the relationship, a house, retirement fund fund, an inheritance. I’m sure you don’t want your ex-partner to get half of that. You’re…

> You’re entitled to keep a larger portion of it (as you get a credit for it). Doesn't this depend on if you have a pre-nup especially in states like CA? I got married super early and had to divide everything equally even though I earned much more than my spouse.

Most states with historical ties to Spanish civil law are community property, and a few oddballs too. IRS (U.S. federal tax agency) Publication 555 explains a lot of the basics of community and separate property, including how taxation works in case of divorce. (It is not specifically about divorce, however).

As you can see this represents a large percent of the total U.S. population.

Arizona. California. Idaho. Louisiana. Nevada. New Mexico. Texas. Washington Wisconsin

Also, "The states of Tennessee and South Dakota have passed elective Community Property Laws."

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#193

Post by saiya-jin » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:25 PM UTC

xWJkCDrVQ2 wrote: post #134

My parents divorced recently. Watching two of the most important people in my life gradually grow to resent each other to the point where they can't stand each other's presence was hard for me even as a thirty year old. I can't imagine what this experience would have done to me as a child, so I'm thankful that they stuck together for as long as they did. In the end I was actually the one who suggested that they shoul…

> I haven't told either of them though, because I know it will break their hearts.

Are you sure you are doing what's best in this situation and not just shying away from potential confrontation with them? Projecting their reaction which can be far from reality? In my 40+ years of experience with this thing called life I've always ended up with same conclusion - truth deserves to be told, even if its not pleasant. Also, truth will always find its way.

Some people will go to ridiculous lengths and suffering to avoid confrontation with truth, because 1000 small cuts seem less hurtful than 1 larger one and uncertainty it brings. Showing a proper respect and telling hard truth is appreciated by many folks though. Realizing your own child was bullshitting you for decades because of avoiding telling the truth which is anyway inescapable may hurt much more than actual topic in discussion.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#194

Post by ransom1538 » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #87

pyuser583 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just watched friends divorce. They brought a lot of unnecessary suffering in themselves. They didn’t want an app. The number one thing to know about divorce with kids is that you lose control. They couldn’t stand that. The idea that the other person was 100% in charge of the kids. They began making extremely vague allegations of how the other parent does unspecified “bad things” that need to be “reported.” They eve…

Once you understand child support payments, and thus the ability to be jailed and eventually charged with a felony and have your civil rights revoked, are tied to custody you'll understand part of the reason for the high stakes. If you end up with The only debtor's prison there is in the US is the one for people with <50% custody. Therefore if the other parent makes claims of abuse, it's imperative you have countercl…

"The only debtor's prison there is in the US is the one for people with The amount of people in county jail due to failure to pay child support is shocking. It is one of the best kept secrets in the jail system. The numbers are hidden since they are often bailiff arrests not integrated with sheriff stats [operates jails] under civil contempt. Once you are caught into this system and serve jail time you will most likely lose your current job. Thus begins a debtors spiral: Appear in court, can't pay, jail, release, appear in court, can't pay, jail - you will face ever increasing penalties and bizarre state punishments like having your drivers license suspended.

This system is particularly cruel to High cost of living / High paid individuals. EG. If you make 100k per year and finalize your divorce [lose house, 1/2 savings, 40k in lawyer fees, begin renting in high cost area, forced private school tuition] - alimony with child payments could be ~3k per month post tax. You might be able to swing this a few months. However, stress from the divorce could result in job loss. In the state of Florida for example, just being behind $2500 is a felony (they haven't updated their law). If you attempt to go to another state to find work it is considered fleeing (another felony).

It's hard to find evidence or tape of anything I said since cases are buried in confidential family courts, here is one example of an unrepresented person in the debt spiral. Watch until the end: jail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvOIdhJg1As

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#195

Post by benreesman » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:28 PM UTC

vasco wrote: post #133

benreesman wrote: post #96

This is slightly tangential, but I went through a no-prenup divorce. My intentions were good in not wanting a pre-nup, but I’ve changed my advice for a reason that surprises a lot of people. The reason I now advise folks to do a pre-nup is that when things are getting tense, everyone feeling insecure about their future actually increases the pressure and therefore the possibility of a divorce. Write your pre-nup howe…

Simpler option is to avoid marriage, greatly reducing the pressure on getting a divorce.

This is one of those computers and people who think like computers crashing into human reality moments.

We should all strictly optimize for maximum utilization of resources.

Beep boop.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#196

Post by 12ian34 » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #27

This is great - ideally it would evolve to a more generic mediation app. One thing surprising to some folks is that most people, including lawyers actually don't like litigation. Most things are settled out of court, and even more are mediated before a settlement. Helping people realize the cost ineffectiveness of litigation is honestly a good thing. Obviously for corporations and businesses the logic is different bu…

Initially read "mediation" as "meditation" and genuinely thought it'd be a good idea! I speculate that if more people meditated more frequently, we might have fewer divorces!

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#197

Post by benreesman » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:34 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #190

astura wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought prenups were for couples where one or both parties are bringing assets into the divorce? Like, I'd consider one if I had any real assets or savings beyond my retirement accounts, but at the time I got married I didn't.

Any contract is useful only so far as one or both parties have the means and inclination to either litigate it or credibly threaten to. Absent a disparity in the pre-marriage estates, I doubt anyone would have the inclination to push the issue.

GSElevator is notoriously vulgar and offensive, but if you view it as stand up comedy, it’s (darkly) funny for a reason.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gselevator/status/698952591963598...

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#198

Post by pyuser583 » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

jquery wrote: post #147

pyuser583 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sort of rational thinking you are describing was completely absent from this process. Neither party cared about child support or alimony. Or money, at all. Also, you’re not accurately describing how things turned out. One of the parents wound up having very little custody time, and very little child support.

> The sort of rational thinking you are describing was completely absent from this process The unreasonably high stakes of “losing” a divorce case make it more like a no-holds barred cage match. I think America likes it this way because on some level it believes people must suffer for getting divorced.

They only cared about the events leading to the divorce, not the divorce itself.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#199

Post by daniel_reetz » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #102

romanovcode wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's called postnup. You do a prenup and after marriage do a postnup. This pretty much binds contract in stone since partner accepted the terms even after the marriage contract was in motion. All in all marriage seems like a lot of contracts for no good benefit.

The difficulty of unwinding it is what makes it a valuable signal of commitment.

Interesting way to think about it. It's also interesting to think about how many institutions and businesses exist to facilitate a marriage, and how few exist to end one. Easy in, hard out.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#200

Post by helpfulclippy » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

chrsig wrote: post #72

no_wizard wrote: post #57

Does this handle potential alimony? That’s the thing that scares me about getting divorced. A friend of mine confided in me that their partner hasn’t worked since they been married and is afraid that ending the relationship would put them in a deep alimony situation. Unfortunate side effect of living in a high cost are sure but I understand their frustration

It shouldn't be that scary. I've been married coming up on 10 years in January. I've been the sole income provider for a large majority of the marriage. I wouldn't be able to make the income that I do without the contributions my wife has made to making my life easier, and in general keeping the more administrative aspects of life under control. I'm in a marriage with her because I love her and respect her. Part of t…

> I'd advise the friend of yours to create a relationship their spouse wants to be in. That's how you prevent the downsides of alimony.

This is simply not true. Your spouse has free will, and can use that free will to make marriage-ending decisions, no matter what you do.