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Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

chess24.com

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Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#191

It might be worth mentioning a famous abdication which caused a lot of consternation, albeit in another game. I love this story but may have gotten some details wrong. Marion Tinsley was world checkers champion from 1955-1958, then took a break, then again from 1975-1991, when he resigned in protest (at age 64 ). He was utterly dominant; indeed it is hard to think of a competitor in all of history more dominant over…

I love this story so much. This The Atlantic article telling the full tale is a favorite of mine [1]

It's hard to overstate how incredibly dominant Tinsley was. In his entire career, he never lost a match, and only ever lost 7 games (two to Chinook). That is out of maybe tens of thousands of games. He was a mathematician by training and taught at a historically black university. He was also deeply religious and a lay minister at a black church. He famously described the difference between chess and checkers like this: “Chess is like looking out over a vast open ocean; checkers is like looking into a bottomless well.”

I could just quote the entire article, but I'll just leave it at this passage:

> The two men sat in his office and began the matches, Schaeffer moving for Chinook and entering changes in the game into the system. The first nine games were all draws. In the tenth game, Chinook was cruising along, searching 16 to 17 moves deep into the future. And it made a move where it thought it had a small advantage. “Tinsley immediately said, ‘You’re gonna regret that.’” Schaeffer said. “And at the time, I was thinking, what the heck does he know, what could possibly go wrong?” But, in fact, from that point forward, Tinsley began to pull ahead...

> The computer scientist became fixated on that moment. After the match, he ran simulations to examine what had gone wrong. And he discovered that, in fact, from that move to the end of the game, if both sides played perfectly, he would lose every time. But what he discovered next blew his mind. To see that, a computer or a human would have to look 64 moves ahead.

Tinsley was simply one of the most remarkable human minds of the 20th century. I'm happy he finally got a challenger that was worthy of him (as no other humans could even come close), but it also seems fitting that he was never officially defeated in a real checkers match. Rest in peace.

[1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/07/mario...

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#192

It might be worth mentioning a famous abdication which caused a lot of consternation, albeit in another game. I love this story but may have gotten some details wrong. Marion Tinsley was world checkers champion from 1955-1958, then took a break, then again from 1975-1991, when he resigned in protest (at age 64 ). He was utterly dominant; indeed it is hard to think of a competitor in all of history more dominant over…

You skipped the best part of the story!

> We [Chinook and the lead programmer] played an exhibition match against Marion Tinsley in 1991. And the computer told me to make this one particular move. When I made it, Tinsley immediately said, "You're going to regret that."

> Not being a checkers player, I thought, "what does he know, my computer is looking 20 moves ahead." But a few moves later, the computer said that Tinsley had the advantage and a few moves after that I resigned.

More details on this epic match from Wikipedia:

> The lead programmer Jonathan Schaeffer looked back into the database and discovered that Tinsley picked the only strategy that could have defeated Chinook from that point and Tinsley was able to see the win 64 moves into the future.

---

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/science/short-history-ai-sc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Tinsley

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#193
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just forces 8 players in the candidates to do their preparation BEFORE the tournament. Economically speaking, that won't be enough time for advertising, setting the venue or getting sponsor up either. It matters who plays in the WCC match before you can do either of those things. We still don't know when or where the match for this cycle will happen even now.

Not only does it force the 8 players to prepare before the tournament, it forces the champion to prepare against all 8 players, making their task even worse!

Worse or, and that would be the point of the change, entirely different. You would do some study of all possible opponents, but you obviously can no longer do so much focus on the single player. Which means, the better preparation would just to prepare your best chess against whomever you are going to play. Which could be much more fun and make the games more interesting, as there is much more space for tactical surprises.

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#194
post #183
post #166

Can someone please explain to me (someone complete out of the world of chess) why he doesn’t like to compete in the World Championship but likes to compete in other tournaments?

WC requires copious amounts of high-intensity prep, close to a year from what he has said before, so this is a ROI thing for Carlsen. He has spent half-ish (emphasis on the ish) of his adult life preparing specifically for WC matches.

Why does the WC take so much more prep than other tournaments? Is it because of the format, or just the pressure to win?

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#195
post #15

Time to change the format. It's understandable you don't want to spend your whole career preparing for these long matches all the time. For the challenger it's 6 months of preparing, but for Carlsen it would've been his 6th time of preparing for this in a few years. They have also become less entertaining. 12 matches is long (edit, 14 now), but no one dares to take any risks. Caruana was just defensive and all games…

For those of us who don't follow this closely, why is the format such a problem? Is it because its stressful, and demands too much work and prep from participants. Just asking as competitive sport at the top level be it chess, football, or even swimming for that matter demands lots of work and a kind of work ethic not easy for most of us.

The format is not a problem per se. It's grueling, sure but that's what a word-championship match should be. Magnus Carlsen just feels there's not much to gain anymore for him, by defending his title. That's all there is to it I think.

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#196
post #161

It might be worth mentioning a famous abdication which caused a lot of consternation, albeit in another game. I love this story but may have gotten some details wrong. Marion Tinsley was world checkers champion from 1955-1958, then took a break, then again from 1975-1991, when he resigned in protest (at age 64 ). He was utterly dominant; indeed it is hard to think of a competitor in all of history more dominant over…

It turns out Checkers was solved, for perfect play, in 2007 if anyone was wondering. https://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~chinook/publications/solving...

By Chinook, actually. The computer science Jonathan Schaeffer became obsessed with solving checkers, because it was the only way to prove that Chinook could've beaten Tinsley in a fair game (as Tinsley passed away before Chinook could defeat him on the board).

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this was sarcasm, but that's like saying NP-hardness is no big deal because we only care about finite problems.

NP-hardness is indeed often not a big deal in practice because NP-hardness is a statement about asymptotic worst case complexity. In practice you have some finite size problems that are often of average difficulty, not of worst case difficulty. For example, we solve instances of SAT every day, some of them quite large. Even humans are able to solve many Sudoku puzzles, even though Sudoku is NP-hard. If you hang with…

I solve the TSP every time I run errands.

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#198
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hasn't it been done then?

We haven't build enough Dyson spheres to power a computer of the right size yet.

There are more states to calculate than atoms in the universe so it isn't possible to brute force the problem. Maybe it can be solved, but it will require math.

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#199
In the short run at least, this might hurt FIDE more than Magnus. He's already the biggest brand in global chess by far, at this point becoming successful at the 'influencer game' (his podcasts, other content like the poker and fantasy football he got into as well, collaborating with other influencers like the - also Norwegian - highly successful former climber Magnus Midtbo,...) might do more for his brand than winning yet another title.

That's assuming that's even his goal, he really just seems to be doing whatever he enjoys. And in the long run, FIDE will also be fine. There will be new talents, and as even Magnus admitted, it's hard to rival the 'official' world champion title in terms of global attention.

Re: Magnus Carlsen to give up World Championship title

#200
post #166

Can someone please explain to me (someone complete out of the world of chess) why he doesn’t like to compete in the World Championship but likes to compete in other tournaments?

The preparation. Studying your opponent’s history for 6 months without spending time actually _playing_ is not fun.
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