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Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

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191–200 of 423 posts

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#191
post #182
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why you saw what you saw is twofold. 1) You did not see nuns. Formal lineage of nuns died in Theravada lineage hundreds of years ago. Women were wearing white robes right? Those are the robes of novices. You need 5? female nuns to ordain a new nun. Sri Lankan monk, Bhante Henepola Gunaratana (aka Bhante G) asked Tibetan nuns so bootstrap the tradition in Theravada, but it's just starting and there is resis…

Yes, thank you for this explanation. I didn’t know that they were not fully ordained, I learned something from you today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thilashin (although one could argue whether to call them nuns or not in English. The wikipedia article still calls them “Burmese Theravada Buddhist nun” and they were called nuns in English where I practiced - I’d say their culture’s concept of “nun” does not map perf…

> When Buddhism supports and reinforces misogyny, racism or jingoism from the surrounding culture, this is also a failing of Buddhism.

Buddhism as a religion has constantly and reliably failed throughout history. "This is not true Buddhism" is putting head into the sand. Buddhism that is deeply embedded into culture and tradition carries the baggage of the culture. Often when it transfers to a new culture there is a nice break from the tradition.

>There are many Buddhist teachers (including Jack Kornfield) who absolutely do emphasise more virtuous and emphatic

Yes. The wisdom of Jack Kornfield is taking western secular values adopting them into Buddhism and getting rid of the bad. Buddhism like any religion can be changed to anything you like, good or bad.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#192
In the 21st century, in the West, "Buddhism" is treated as a set of stress-relief techniques and slogans.

This isn't strictly limited to the West: at least two of Taiwan's Four Great Mountains (i.e. schools of Buddhism) are similarly inclined, with additional cultish elements thrown in for good measure.

The cultish elements had already developed independently within corporate cultures, but adding Buddhist slogans and techniques (rather than the philosophical and devotional elements), has given it a new edge.

Buddhist cults focus on fate, inevitability, acceptance, detachment. You are helpless against the world, which by the way, works the way we say, because we are the enlightened bearers of the great tradition. And because of this helplessness, here's a set of doctrines you should follow. Corporate Buddhism additionally tries to appropriate mindfulness as "focusing on work".

And, yes, that stuff is historically there, in Buddhism. It's present in many many of the fractally complex historical branches of the Buddhist taxonomic tree. But too many people only ever see one leaf on that tree, and think "oh so this is Buddhism".

Except Buddhism is also a philosophy of action, and a set of guides for correct action. Acting rightly entails seeing rightly, and so Buddhism includes an appreciation for and guide towards empirical inquiry. This was always terrifying to authority figures, and Asia only didn't develop modern science first because Buddhist logic and experimentation were among the casualties of The Burning of Books and Burying of Scholars.

And here, in the 21st century culture of global megacorporations, we see this pattern again; the pleasant, passive parts of Buddhism are allowed in, while pretending the other parts don't exist.

But Buddhism did have rebellious warrior monks. Ashoka, the greatest Buddhist King, made it clear that the law would be enforced, and his borders protected. Acting correctly always requires brutality towards oppressors, but this part of Buddhism is unpalatable within corporate culture.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#194
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

"Jazz drew from ragtime, also “coded” Black, but ragtime drew from marches, drawn in great measure from white men John Philip Sousa and (eep) Wagner."[1] In your view, is this appropriation or cultural mixing or exchange? [1]: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/theres-no-alternative-t...

I wasn't claiming to be the authority on what's "appropriation." I was pointing out that the poster--who admitted he didn't read the article past the subheadline[1]--doesn't seem to understand how people use the term "appropriation."

That said, since you asked, no, it's never occurred to me that jazz is appropriation.

[1] Amusingly, the folks who admit to not actually, you know, reading the thing they are debating, are the ones who claim to be defending the free exchange of ideas. I think. Or maybe they're just angry online.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#195
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be rather a literalist.

And how should I take those signs of enlightenment then? If not literally then Buddhist scripture is no better than fiction.

Ramana Maharshi got cancer. When the doctor operated to remove the tumor anesthetic was refused. Ramana watched the operation without evident discomfort. He said after that he experienced the sensations of the operation but did not suffer.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only narcissists and not very aware people are able to "enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness." Because that's what it takes to ignore abusive levels of inequality and systemic threats to the continued survival of the species. The point is not about what happened in the past, it's about what is still happening now - and how the narratives from the past continue to be used to justify it. Ignoring this is neit…

> Only narcissists and not very aware people are able to "enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness." I do not believe myself to be a narcissist and I think I am at least somewhat aware of the world and it’s problems. Yet, despite this, I do “ enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness”. I think what is preventing you from doing the same is ideology and close mindedness. From the comment, you come across lik…

It’s funny you say this, because it’s precisely because of my fundamentalist Christian worldview that allows me to love and accept the world as it is.

Sounds like you’ve had some bad run-ins with Christian fundamentalists. Sure the world is broken, but most Christians realize the world is inherently beautiful (not to be confused with ‘good’).

If the God of the universe died to save it, there’s got to be fundamental value there. Therefore if someone thinks the world is ugly and can’t enjoy it, that’s an internal thing they gotta fix, not an immutable, self-evident truth about the world… again it’s precisely because of the Bible that I believe these things.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#197
> Chen: For the overwhelming majority of Asian Buddhists, Buddhism is a devotional practice. Bowing to images of deities, burning incense, worshiping at an altar — those are all fundamental elements of Buddhist practice. There is this acknowledgement of worshiping higher beings. Meditation was not at all a mainstream lay practice in Buddhism. It only became popular in the early twentieth century, when Buddhist reformers such as the Burmese monk Mahasi Sayadaw, founder of modern Vipassana meditation, promoted it as a lay Buddhist practice. Mindfulness, as it was practiced for most of its history in Asia, was a very elite practice reserved only for advanced monastics. But Jack Kornfield, who is one of a number of influential teachers responsible for making Buddhist meditation go mainstream, understood that devotional Buddhism would be an obstacle for white Americans. He emphasized meditation because he understood that devotional Buddhism would be too associated with “religious” practice.

This paragraph is so so wrong. Where do I even start?

She says that others are appropriating Buddhism, and she goes on to do just that.

Yuck.

And no, meditation wasn’t reserved for the monastic elites. Did she even study Buddhism at all?

Buddha said in his address to Ananda, that thousands of his disciples who are in households, and not monks, have attained Nirvana. Not only did they meditate, they attained Nirvana- the highest goal.

This person is saying all sorts of wrong things.

If you go by Gautama Buddha's teachings only, you will know that none of the common practices nowadays are kind of forbidden by Buddha. The bowing down, the incense sticks- these are later additions, and never encouraged by the Buddha.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a coworker recently tell me I was culturally appropriating the Buddha (I'm a Buddhist) presumably because I am "from the West". Apart from being one of the most offensive things I've ever been told (before anyone jumps on me for this: I can still observe it as offensive regardless of my attachment to the offense) it confirmed for me that whatever is going on in the US with identity politics has jumped the shark…

Your coworker needs to read the Suttas. Shakyamuni explains again and again and again that the teachings are for everyone .

Yes, this Chen person is so so wrong.

She says that meditation is for some monastic elites, but that is far from the truth. Who even chose to publish her book?

Buddha himself said to Ananda that several thousand of his household desciples attained Nirvana. Not only did these "laymen" did meditation, they even attained Nirvana.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#199
post #8

I’m a Catholic (so I have … my own view on Buddhism) but I lived in SEA for a long time. I want to say, this article is very good. The buddhism as practiced in the west has very little to do with actual practices in the east. But, Buddhism is also very confusing, and it’s hard to say “what is the true buddhism” (mahayana, therevada, vajrayana and zen buddhism in Japan (formally mahayana) are all very different)

What makes you think what goes on in SEA today is the actual Buddhism?

This is so wrong.

The current practices in SEA is so far from what the Buddha actually taught.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only narcissists and not very aware people are able to "enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness." I do not believe myself to be a narcissist and I think I am at least somewhat aware of the world and it’s problems. Yet, despite this, I do “ enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness”. I think what is preventing you from doing the same is ideology and close mindedness. From the comment, you come across lik…

It’s funny you say this, because it’s precisely because of my fundamentalist Christian worldview that allows me to love and accept the world as it is. Sounds like you’ve had some bad run-ins with Christian fundamentalists. Sure the world is broken, but most Christians realize the world is inherently beautiful (not to be confused with ‘good’). If the God of the universe died to save it, there’s got to be fundamental v…

What you describing doesn’t sound fundamentalist to me.

I was referring more to the sort of people who, for example, see homosexuals having gay pride and start worrying it’s the end times and they must cleanse the world through adherence to their religion or something like that.

Let me re-write the comment I was responding as a fundamentalist would write it.

—-

Only sinners and heathens are able to "enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness."

Because that's what it takes to ignore abusive levels of homosexuality and systemic threats to the continued survival of the church.

The point is not about what happened in the past, it's about what is still happening now - and how the narratives from the past continue to be used to justify it.

Ignoring this is neither compassionate nor realistic - although it is heretical, pretty much by definition.

—-

I am 100% percent convinced that there are fundamentalist christians or islamists or whatever who would read that re-written comment as go “oh yeah, that makes complete sense”.

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