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Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

science.org

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Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#191

Post by kaycebasques »

Spinosaurus wrote: post #181
kaycebasques wrote: post #66

I had to use oral antibiotics about a year ago for reasons that could have been avoided. I was pretty upset about it precisely because it probably wreaked havoc on all the beneficial gut microbes that I had built up over the years.

Have you had any lasting effects? I've been prescribed a "fairly serious" antibiotic for a skin condition that has been plaguing me for several years (I've gotten like 5 different diagnosis and tons of different Rx). I'm otherwise incredibly healthy, so this antibiotic scares the shit out of me and I have yet to start taking it.

No lasting effects but it was only a year ago so who knows - my completely amateur take is you've got to balance the payoff with the risk - in your case the payoff of getting rid of a skin condition that's been plaguing me for years seems like a fair trade for the risk of the antibiotics if I were in your shoes... it's not like you didn't try to let your body resolve it on its own (since you've had it for years)

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#192

Post by jcoq »

mulmen wrote: post #161

This article is mostly cliche popsci trash that isn’t worth reading. Good for a game of logical fallacy bingo. The only interesting development seems to be the methodology but that only gets a passing mention. The rest is basically fearmongering. > In humans, for example, gut bacteria influence how the immune system responds to pathogens and allergens, or interact with the brain, affecting mood. Ok. But what does tha…

I think you're largely missing the point of this article, which mostly summarizes a novel technique for comparing gut biome diversity, and which goes through a small amount of effort to summarize the growing (if not clearly established) scientific consensus about the importance of healthy gut biomes.

I don't think it takes very much imagination to understand why the loss of diversity in an ecosystem might have negative implications for that ecosystem.

For whatever it's worth to you, Science magazine is a companion to the extremely prestigious Science Journal and it often tries to summarize the research in the journal. The tiniest amount of searching shows that the biologist whose work is being summarized a is one of the leading experts in this area.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#193

Post by jazzyjackson »

nebfield wrote: post #72
aluminussoma wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one analyze the gut biome? I imagine it involves running poop through a machine - what kind of machine? I would love to learn more about the technical process.

The paper uses 16S rDNA sequencing, which is a bit old fashioned now but it was a good method when the paper was published. The steps basically involve: 1. Extract all DNA from poop, normally using a kit that basically makes DNA stick to tiny plastic beads. You wash the beads in a bunch of different chemical solutions to isolate DNA from the original sample and purify it. There are a lot of different methods to do th…

Really cool, thanks for the details. It's reminiscent of a plot point in a sci-fi I'm reading, Zendegi - the protagonist is hell-bent on cracking the problem of simulating the brain in a computer, but funding is running out. Her coworker excitedly explains that he's awarded a grant for his project: simulating the interactions of microbe species in latrines, for purposes of preventing outbreaks of disease. He wants our protagonist to jump ship on the brain stuff, says it will always be there, that she can do some real good right now, and the skills will transfer over, she won't be wasting her time learning how to simulate the microbial communities in poop.

(Alas, an eccentric billionaire with hopes of uploading himself to a supercomputer swoops in to fund the mind-mapping project...)

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#194

Post by ekianjo »

mulmen wrote: post #161

This article is mostly cliche popsci trash that isn’t worth reading. Good for a game of logical fallacy bingo. The only interesting development seems to be the methodology but that only gets a passing mention. The rest is basically fearmongering. > In humans, for example, gut bacteria influence how the immune system responds to pathogens and allergens, or interact with the brain, affecting mood. Ok. But what does tha…

> Lifespan has also increased with decreased gut biome diversity.

Life expectancy increase is mostly a factor of decreased death at birth or in early years. You dont see an exponential increase of 100 years old. People die at about the same age as before, give or take.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#195

Post by ekianjo »

pojzon wrote: post #175
mulmen wrote: post #161

This article is mostly cliche popsci trash that isn’t worth reading. Good for a game of logical fallacy bingo. The only interesting development seems to be the methodology but that only gets a passing mention. The rest is basically fearmongering. > In humans, for example, gut bacteria influence how the immune system responds to pathogens and allergens, or interact with the brain, affecting mood. Ok. But what does tha…

Whats scary is that we have more and more civilization diseases and we have no idea whats causing them beside guesses. Worsening of the environment we live in impacts us in ways we cannot even imagine. Scary is that we cannot go back, coz its financially impossible for most.

Which "civilization diseases"?

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#198

Post by culi »

makeitdouble wrote: post #180
lbeltrame wrote: post #4

About ten years ago my former PI (second author in the below paper) did quite a job on this in Burkina Faso, analyzing the composition of the gut in children living outside cities, in cities, and a comparison with European children. Obligatory disclaimer: I was working in his laboratory at the time, but I wasn't involved in that research. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1005963107

> indicating the importance of preserving this treasure of microbial diversity from ancient rural communities worldwide This study (and the FA) mention losing/presrving microbial diversity, but don't touch on how we got these microbes in the first place. I was expecting it comes mostly from what we eat and the environment, including eventually the people around us (and the mother - baby link ?) I kinda wondered if we…

Very likely. Almost all probiotics people take are transient. Meaning they just pass through and don't form long term colonies in our guts. There's a few exceptions with some soil-derived probiotics but those are also the least predictable

It seems really likely to me that our bodies have likely adapted to an environment where exposure to certain types of bacteria is very common. For example, there's been a lot of research on the potential of ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) such as Nitrosomonas to reduce body odor when applied topically. There's companies trying to use this to sell you "probiotic shampoo" and other skin care products. But you know where else Nitrosomonas is commonly found? Most soils. These bacteria are also extremely easy to kill off with shampoos and even the small amounts of fluoride added to tap water

Given how deeply we depend on microbes for digestion it doesn't seem far fetched to think our skin microbiome has also adapted to a ready supply of these microbes to help us in certain ways. Besides keeping us less stinky by eating our sweat, skin microbes have also been shown to help with acne,[0] protect us from UV damage,[1] and has even been shown to have deep interaction with our gut and brain health.[2]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6534434/

[1] https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/microorganisms/microorgani...

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S075333222...

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#200

Post by doc_gunthrop »

ssnistfajen wrote: post #162
AussieWog93 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit, that is the most over-the-top, aggressive response to a guy being factually incorrect about yoghurt that I've ever read.

Can you point exactly which part was "over-the-top" or "aggressive"? Or is calling out that factually incorrect things are, well, factually incorrect somehow unacceptable nowadays? The world needs less pseudoscience misinfo, not more.

> The world needs less pseudoscience misinfo, not more.

Fully agreed. I appreciate the stern yet information-laden correction. It's certainly much better than hearing specious claims based on conjecture/misinformation that only seems plausible to the uninformed.

Also, IMO it did not sound "over-the-top" or "aggressive" at all. Some people are just so absurdly oversensitive that a simply direct method of speaking (or in this case, writing) is taken as hostile.

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