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Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#191

Post by hypertele-Xii »

sweetheart wrote: post #24
ominous wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any argument here in Amazon’s defense? Can you phrase the attack you imagine they need defense from in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position (or that tries to achieve a universal position) everyone must adhere to?

I feel as though homophobia is never an acceptable worldview, so if you want me to reword what I said in a way that doesn’t imply that, I won’t. Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter.

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#192

Post by themaninthedark »

ehhthing wrote: post #123
londons_explore wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not providing your services to the people of these countries, you are making their quality of life worse. See heavily sanctioned countries like North Korea and Iran for examples of quite how much worse life is for those citizens. "I don't want to support Mohammed bin Salman" needs to be traded off against "I don't want to make 34 million people have worse lives". In my view, in nearly every case, the latter effect…

As a former Chinese citizen, I've always been a bit confused why people get mad at companies operating in the country, censored. At least in my experience, a censored version of a foreign website is always much better than the stuff developed locally, and there are some political reasons for this I won't go into. In my opinion, it's pure virtue signalling to argue that "a company compromising morals in a different co…

Because those people feel that their culture/ideas are the correct one's and that the other county should change(Sometimes they may even be right!). They view the domestic companies as a vehicle to push their views and effect this change.

There are a couple camps:

Do business but censor, in the hopes that the users become aware and become promoters of your views

Don't do business as to not enable the regime to succeed and hope the potential users notice and become promoters of your views.

I think that for the most part, even companies like Google or Facebook will not be able to change a country, similar to how the US was not able to change Cuba or North Korea.

I think that there is a lack of understanding in Western society that other societies view their government/societal structure not as vehicles for increased personal freedom but as a structure to promote social stability over long periods of time(1000 of years. Something I think China is particularly proud of, for good reason).

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#193

Post by GekkePrutser »

hcks wrote: post #150
GekkePrutser wrote: post #73

I just cannot understand why so many people get so angry about what other consenting adults get up to in a closed bedroom. Live and let live.

This is such a tired argument. LGBT+ acceptance is fortunately not limited to « what people do in their bedrooms ».

Of course it's more than that but the objections of religious groups seem to revolve around the bedroom activities much more than any other aspect. That's why I mentioned that specifically. Which I find strange because it's exactly the aspect they are not impacted by in any way.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#194

Post by FerociousTimes »

JackFr wrote: post #140
djohnston wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My feeling is that if you're going out of your way to promote an ideology/cultural value domestically (Happy Pride Month!, flags everywhere, etc), then yes you need to stick to your guns and not bow to the opposite influence. If you're strictly in the business of making money, then by all means conduct your business but stfu about it.

> if you're going out of your way to promote an ideology/cultural value domestically (Happy Pride Month!, flags everywhere, etc) A cynic might even suspect the value signal is more about marketing than deeply held belief.

Pinkwashing can be very annoying

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#195

Post by GekkePrutser »

JackFr wrote: post #155
GekkePrutser wrote: post #73

I just cannot understand why so many people get so angry about what other consenting adults get up to in a closed bedroom. Live and let live.

Hypothetically, what if you believe that this closed bedroom behavior is disordered and unhealthy, and that celebrating it, while admittedly well-intentioned, is not helpful, good or the best way to love or respect these people? Despite that attitude being the norm for much of human history, to advocate such a position now is literally modern heresy, and the end to your career and any public life. Diversity of opinio…

> Hypothetically, what if you believe that this closed bedroom behavior is disordered and unhealthy, and that celebrating it, while admittedly well-intentioned, is not helpful, good or the best way to love or respect these people?

You are saying that the Arab countries do this because they want to love or respect these people?

Maybe not stoning them to death might be more helpful. Just saying.

> Diversity of opinion is trivial if we agree only to differ on the easy stuff and not the difficult stuff.

This is the thing... I don't think this is the difficult stuff at all. It's just nobody else's business if people are gay.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#196

Post by FerociousTimes »

erellsworth wrote: post #51

There's no such thing as a woke corporation. Corporate wokeness is an illusion created by PR departments to maximize market share.

Third party PR firms in particular to bring in more cash and expand their business at the expense of everyone's sanity and the shareholders' financial health.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#197

Post by GekkePrutser »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #186
GekkePrutser wrote: post #73

I just cannot understand why so many people get so angry about what other consenting adults get up to in a closed bedroom. Live and let live.

Quoted post unavailable.

> If yes, we've established that governments and by extension their people have some right (even responsibility) to get angry about what people do behind closed bedrooms.

In these examples other people are actually negatively impacted. In the case of a couple being gay that's not the case. Perhaps if they are extremely loud about it, but this goes for all denominations.

> One of the critical functions of any society, human, insect, literally all animal societies, is to maintain replacement reproduction, or risk societal collapse. Furthermore, societies compete with other societies. It's a defensible argument that society should care about its reproductive issues, here represented by the closed bedroom.

That's a very medieval take. Our main challenges now are environmental and directly linked to overpopulation. Also, killing people that are gay (like many backward countries do) is not going to make them straight and reproduce.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#198

Post by dotnet00 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #166
rayiner wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend of “we’ll pay for your abortion, but won’t make it tolerable to be a working mom” is extremely gross.

I do not see why it is gross. Employees have more utility if they get an abortion and less utility if they have to spend time out for parental leave. If society wants to promote parenting, then society should pass laws about parental leave. Individual businesses have no obligation to reduce their competitiveness in the marketplace.

Why should the legal system have to step in to coerce people to behave like decent human beings?

Plenty of other businesses remain competitive while treating their employees like fellow humans who have their own lives to live.

By your reasoning, if anyone is able to abuse their freedom to do something immoral, it isn't that person or organization's fault, it's society's fault for allowing that to happen. Then why bother with freedom at all?

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#199

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #181
corobo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not see why it is gross It's the whole bit about forgetting people are people. If you want robots go R&D some robots > Employees have more utility if they get an abortion Yea like that

Everyone likes to say that, and then goes out and buys things from the vendor selling to them at the lowest price. Societal benefits fall squarely on the government’s shoulders, and their shoulders alone. Admonishing and expecting businesses to not optimize within their boundary conditions is a waste of time.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#200

Post by FerociousTimes »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #9

As does every other corporation that puts up a rainbow lag the second its pride month. Blackrock, McDonnel Douglas and Exxon are really trying to be on the right side of history here, folks! Ask Disney if they show the same movies in China. Its all just kowtowing to the power of the Global American Empire legislated by misguided civil rights legislation, enforced by the politcommissars in HR. Every culture has a righ…

> Every culture has a right to protect its values.

What "value" that would be? Oppressing gay people?!

You have the moral high ground in this debate, how's that even fathomable?!

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