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Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

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Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just make a claim without any evidence and then say "well it doesn't matter if they actually do it or not"

Samsung (and the rest of the TV industry, Samsung is just the worst of the bunch) has fucked up trust in them extremely hard and they are not showing in any way that they have learned from the past or how they plan to re-gain consumer trust. Until that happens, it is foolish to assume they would never implement something like "connect to an open wifi".

See you’re moving the goalpost here. You went from they can to they could. That’s exactly the point of people who require proof it has happened.

When we have proof of one manufacturer connecting to an open wi-fi network to send its snooping data, we’ll have a a reckoning on our hands. I guarantee it.

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#192
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And every thread says they can connect to open WiFi without providing any proof that they do. It would be trivial to test and prove but no-one ever does. I'm not saying they wouldn't do it but I'd prefer some proof before judging them (without having to shell out to be the guinea pig).

My Samsung fridge manual says it'll mesh network with any Samsung TVs it sees, specifically to share tracking data for marketing purposes.

Any chance you could upload the part of the manual that says that? That's insane - I have a Samsung TV and generally thought I was safe by disabling internet access.

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#193
post #151

Every time this comes up I feel obligated to add the following: 1) Samsung televisions spy on your mercilessly . They collect everything they can, including screenshots at regular intervals and send them back to Samsung so that they can sell this to "partners". They are not a FAANG and don't have anywhere near their level of security expertise. I have second-hand but reliable information about their security approach…

Does anyone know if they do this on TVs sold in the EU?

why, you’d just go and throw your money at them if they didn’t?

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#194
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't tell if you're being facetious or not. If a technologist can't change an IP address on a TV's network settings then they're probably in the wrong community.

I think the wider point here is that technologists represent a small portion of Samsung's target market. Most people won't know or care how to change an IP address in the TV's network settings. Whereas I fall into the "I could, but why should I?" category of people who mostly try to buy devices that don't actively spy on me in the first place (doesn't work so well for modern phones or games consoles).

"Whereas I fall into the "I could, but why should I?" category"

Same here.

I've three Samsung TVs of various age none of which has been connected to the internet (in fact, only one has that capability). Knowing what I know now I would never connect a Samsung TV to the internet - in fact I'd never buy another Samsung TV set, phone or other appliance again.

The people behind Samsung who authorized the spying as well as those who've attempted to fool testers into believing the specs are better than they actually are have shit ethics - there's no other way of putting it more politely (as this is a public forum, I've toned down my language considerably).

I've been around in tech and engineering quite some time and I am alarmed at how the ethics of engineering people have waned over recent decades. In recent decades, we've regularly seen unethical engineering practices introduced into products in ways that in the past would never have even been considered let alone that would have ever made their way to market. Samsung is not alone, remember the Volkswagen fiasco; now it's commonplace - Microsoft et al.

In this laissez faire environment sans ethics it seems that almost any behavior is acceptable. I often wonder why those in my profession who are responsible for the introduction of such products no longer object to designing them in unethical ways. (If engineers objected on mass to such practices, management would have difficulties enforcing such policies.)

As I see it, two approaches are needed: the first is the need for proper legislation that would outlaw such practices with the aim of protecting consumers, and the second is publicly exposing those who are responsible for them (legislation should ensure violators cannot hide behind a corporate façade). Engineers would object to designing unethical products if they knew their names were associated with them and that they were being held responsible.

Moreover, professional bodies such as ACM and IEEE, etc. should be proactive in this by expelling members found guilty of unethical practices associated with their profession. This would go a long way to stopping such practices, I reckon.

Incidentally, for some decades I was a member of both the IEEE and ACM and I withdrew from their membership because they failed to uphold their own ethics. Especially the IEEE, it rarely, if ever, questioned unethical and questionable engineering practices. It seems to me these organizations should be embarrassed into actively doing something to stop the slide in ethics amongst their members.

I'm also of the opinion that we need some deep research into exactly what has happened to the engineering ethos over past decades. Laws and sanctions as mentioned above may provide a partial solution but finding the underlying cause and rectifying it is clearly the ideal one.

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung (and the rest of the TV industry, Samsung is just the worst of the bunch) has fucked up trust in them extremely hard and they are not showing in any way that they have learned from the past or how they plan to re-gain consumer trust. Until that happens, it is foolish to assume they would never implement something like "connect to an open wifi".

See you’re moving the goalpost here. You went from they can to they could . That’s exactly the point of people who require proof it has happened. When we have proof of one manufacturer connecting to an open wi-fi network to send its snooping data, we’ll have a a reckoning on our hands. I guarantee it.

Of course I'm moving goalposts. This kind of shit should be banned before someone gets the idea (or audacity) to implement it. The time for "move fast and deal with the law later" is over - it's obvious that the technical possibility is easy to implement and hard to detect for the average user, it's obvious that there is nothing good for the customer that comes out of it, and so the law should for once be proactive instead of reactive.

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#196
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their appliance division has issues too. There are 2 ongoing lawsuits around their refrigerators. 2017 ice makers leak water (mine does this). https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/new-development-samsung-ic... 2022: fridge gets too warm: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/samsung-refrigerator-class-acti...

It's a shame because my 8-10 years old Samsung dumb TV, oven/microwave and laser printer are all working great to this day. (That's more coincidence than brand loyalty, my Laden (French cheap brand) washing machine has also been working with no maintenance need for 13 years)

Samsung's laser printers were jointly made with Xerox. They run the same firmware and hardware. They are just branded differently.

Since Xerox tried its hand in shady electronics and burnt badly, they can't make bad printers. Hence, their printers' reliability is at HP Laserjet 4L levels. I'm on my second Samsung printer, because I've worn the first one's rollers down, and this one will probably last another 7-8 years, at least.

Then god knows what I'm gonna buy.

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us share your distaste for the issues your mentioned. The challenge is finding better alternatives. Do you have any recommendations?

LG makea better TVs, appliances, phones, everything.

I'd never buy anything made by LG. Even a toothpick.

On the other hand, they're one of the biggest plastics producers in the world.

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They collect everything they can, including screenshots at regular intervals and send them back to Samsung so that they can sell this to "partners" Isn't this a gross violation of privacy and be clearly illegal? I could be playing my home videos with very private content. Add to that copyright violation if they are using screenshots of my content for commercial purposes.

Yes, it’s a gross violation of privacy. People watch porn on their TV, including home-made porn they made themselves. This is being captured and sent back to Samsung. The bigger danger is that you could be watching something on a streaming system that could land you in jail in an authoritarian country. No amount of HTTPS encryption or VPNs will save you if the decoded image is sent raw back to Samsung — where it is n…

What I don't understand is that how have they not been sued already, in the Western countries at least? Seems it should be a clear cut case.

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Double negatives are very much a British English thing and are commonly used in every day language.

I think you would have avoided all the downvotes with, "Double negatives are very much an English language thing and are commonly used in every day language", since American and British English both involve double negatives in colloquial usage.

I only know a handful of Americans and we often talk about the differences in our language. Even had an Australian join the conversation once too and it was a very interesting discussion.

The use of double negatives stood out as something more commonly used in British English however I accept it was a very small sample size!

Re: Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sub zero will last you as long as all 4 of those new ones combined, and thus are worth the hefty price. The only good (read- meant to last) fridges are older ones. Same for washers and dryers, can't tell you how many times someone would get a new set, sell or donate their old ones, and get pissed when one or both stop working and require extensive repairs within the first few months. Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, Urners…

> Sub zero will last you as long as all 4 of those new ones combined, and thus are worth the hefty price. I always buy from Costco so that would have to be 16 years. I would rather invest the difference in cost and keep buying new every 4 years.

I got you. Everyone has their preferences. Having said that no consumer should be replacing appliances that often.

Refrigerators used to last 10-20 years for a fraction of the price.

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