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Solend seized $170M of user funds

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Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#191
In my humble opinion, so far, the only realistic use of crypto is as a store for digital art. Which is also a form of speculation actually, but at least you can enjoy the tokens as art.

If that's the case, then 99 percent of all the chains will fall away and leave just two.

ETH and Tezos.

presumably new tech will be discovered and new chains will be able to handle that. But as of now, the digitization of art actually works very well in crypto, in the form of NFTs (which is a polarizing word)

Solana is a VC back speculative chain which is trying to kickstart art and PFPs on it, because that's basically the only thing you can do right now with where the tech is at. But all the real artists have already made their home on ETH and Tez.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have to convert the crypto into fiat to procure goods and services and the state will just control the border. There will be cases in which a weak state economy can become bitcoinized the same way some have become dolarizesld, but for strong states it is easy to make the border between the currencies as tight as they want it.

>Because you have to convert the crypto into fiat to procure goods and services You do? What is the purpose of cryptocurrency if you are just going to convert back into cash the moment you use it? I think the end goal for cryptocurrency is to create a circular, P2P economy[0][1] Seems pretty difficult to regulate only some cryptocurrencies if it's already possible to anonymously and trustlessly swap between them[2] […

Easy: if congress bans all crypto tomorrow, you can trivially check which websites accept crypto, and then send them a letter to not do that.

If they don’t comply, you tell the registrar/host/ISP to shut them down, then they don’t have a website anymore.

The point is that at some point real people, subject to laws and regulations, will have to touch the thing you’re buying. If you’re buying a sandwich, it doesn’t matter the guy making the sandwich accepts crypto if the government can put them in jail for doing so.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#193
post #9

Sorry, I've read this again and now I think this has little to do with Solana and entirely to do with Solend, and I think they're separate. Maybe someone who knows more about the space can clarify things. I now presume the funds needed to be deposited in Solend's smart contract in order for the trader to borrow the funds against his collateral, and Solend is pushing a patch in order to modify the code so they can sei…

Not only does this not have to do with Solana (it could happen on a protocol on any chain), it's literally what people sign up for when they use a protocol which is upgradeable via a governance vote.

Sensible protocols put upgrades behind a time lock (3 days or 5 days seem to be common). That way anyone who doesn't like the changes can exit the protocol. Solend apparently doesn't have one, which means if you agree to use it, you agree the protocol may change while you're using it (though this should happen after a governance process at least).

If you choose to use a protocol that is upgradeable without a timelock, that's your own decision. Also, this supposed "whale" likely has enough Solend tokens to block the vote if they wanted to.

Since it's even open to a vote, I'd argue it's still fairly decentralized. A more centralized protocol would have privileged users who can make changes or seize funds without needing to go through a vote.

The /r/cryptocurrency subreddit also seems to have an axe to grind with Solana, and people will grind that axe without caring to understand the details of how these things work. I don't use Solana (have maybe $50 of SOL coins, but mainly play on EVM chains), but the frenzied shrieking of crypto shitposters who pile onto FUD bandwagons without doing any due diligence is headache-inducing.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#194

In my humble opinion, so far, the only realistic use of crypto is as a store for digital art. Which is also a form of speculation actually, but at least you can enjoy the tokens as art. If that's the case, then 99 percent of all the chains will fall away and leave just two. ETH and Tezos. presumably new tech will be discovered and new chains will be able to handle that. But as of now, the digitization of art actually…

> In my humble opinion, so far, the only realistic use of crypto is as a store for digital art

Like, IPFS? Does that system count as crypto?

I'm not aware of any crypto system that both stores the art itself on chain and can successfully scale and be useful to a global audience (or at least Bitcoin or ethereum levels of use) without significant costs, slowdowns or sacrifices.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#195
post #155
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a better url would be the governance proposal itself https://realms.today/dao/7sf3tcWm58vhtkJMwuw2P3T6UBX7UE5VKxP... Linked from this tweet by solend https://twitter.com/solendprotocol/status/153844135044142284...

I have zero clue what's going on with this story—seriously zero—but my spidey sense is that if we change the URL to either one of those, we'll trigger a bunch of complaints about it being one-sided. That's not to say the current URL is the best one. But probably a neutral third-party source would be better, though such a thing may not exist.

I work in crypto. I have nearly no stake in Solana or any Solana based project, but I have done a little bit of smart contract programming on Ethereum (actually working on changes to a popular lending protocol that has built-in governance for upgrades)

My personal opinion is that the Governance URL would be far more neutral than any article or thread where people are piling on to use this to criticize Solana (the same change to a protocol could happen, and probably has happened, on Ethereum). The /r/cryptocurrency subreddit is not neutral when it comes to Solana, and 99% of the commenters don't understand what they're talking about.

Criticizing Solend if the proposed changes are made is fair, but this is basically how DAOs work... token holders vote to make proposed changes. If you don't like the existing implementation and governance process, you should avoid the protocol, or pay attention to what might change that could affect you.

If I sign up for a web service and agree to a ToS (which always says it may change and that continued use means I'm agreeing to any future changes), I have far less transparency into what changes might be made. Solend users agreed to the protocol implementation which includes upgrading without a timelock (bad practice). But at least there is a governance process, which gives users a chance to get out when unfavourable changes are happening.

Also, I don't know enough about Solend or Solana to verify this, but users of lending protocols typically get a distribution of the governance token based on their stake, which means the "whale" being discussed likely could block this vote if they wanted to.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#196

In my humble opinion, so far, the only realistic use of crypto is as a store for digital art. Which is also a form of speculation actually, but at least you can enjoy the tokens as art. If that's the case, then 99 percent of all the chains will fall away and leave just two. ETH and Tezos. presumably new tech will be discovered and new chains will be able to handle that. But as of now, the digitization of art actually…

> In my humble opinion, so far, the only realistic use of crypto is as a store for digital art Like, IPFS? Does that system count as crypto? I'm not aware of any crypto system that both stores the art itself on chain and can successfully scale and be useful to a global audience (or at least Bitcoin or ethereum levels of use) without significant costs, slowdowns or sacrifices.

Both IPFS and onchain. Most of AB stuff is onchain, as is CryptoPunks, most stuff on tezos is hosted elsewhere, and there's a great service that popped up that stores your art in case the chain or service folds. That's the type of new useful business in the space.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#197
post #28

Solend. Not Solana. Nice try though. Time to put the pitch forks down and is no different to the DAO hack for Ethereum. Next time, just read beyond the headline, titles rather than quickly spreading outrage everywhere in the comments section. It really doesn't help. Especially if the source is... ...Reddit.

> and is no different to the DAO hack for Ethereum. yikes! the system has had material downtime 7 times in the last year. how is that OK?

> how is that OK?

And who said it was OK? Because I didn't. The whole point is in the Solend case and the reversal of the entire Ethereum chain to restore the funds due to DAO hack tells us that not only 'decentralization' is a complete massive lie, but it also shows the nonsense about 'cOdE iS lAW', and it will only get worse with proof-of-stake.

We have been way past the lies of the 'decentralization' narrative since 2016.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#198

I'm sure this seizure of funds will soon be resolved with an orderly resolution process following applicable banking regulations.

Yeah as soon as they went custodial they opened all of traditional finance’s banking regulations on themselves.

This is a good reason to call the regulator on them and any OTC desk they actually used.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#199

One of the themes in pro-crypto writings has been the idea that as long as you “do your own research” then the bad things won’t happen on your chosen cryptocurrency. The prevailing idea (among pro-crypto spaces) is that bad things only happen to other people who deserve them because they didn’t do the right research. Recently we’re seeing the bad things happen in more and more mainstream chains. Even famous NFT propo…

Like with normal investing, consumers do not have the ability to “do their own research” about the internals of companies who create and promote cryptocurrencies. Which means that the research is flawed.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#200

One of the themes in pro-crypto writings has been the idea that as long as you “do your own research” then the bad things won’t happen on your chosen cryptocurrency. The prevailing idea (among pro-crypto spaces) is that bad things only happen to other people who deserve them because they didn’t do the right research. Recently we’re seeing the bad things happen in more and more mainstream chains. Even famous NFT propo…

Like with normal investing, consumers do not have the ability to “do their own research” about the internals of companies who create and promote cryptocurrencies. Which means that the research is flawed.

This one was about the concentration of voting power. It turned out that a single, anonymous owner of governance tokens had enough votes to decide this hugely consequential issue on their own. Almost as if corporate shareholding concentration and acquisition-disclosure laws are as good as it gets for "decentralisation" of decision-making, and crypto is now going to have to reinvent that as well.

Like, there are literally already laws in many jurisdictions that prevent multiple apparently-independent parties conspiring to avoid jumping over ownership thresholds but nevertheless acquire a majority of a company. Have fun emulating that with pseudonymity, no central regulator and no law enforcement with jurisdiction everywhere the participants are!

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