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The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

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Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a 13” MBP? If not it’s not relevant to this discussion

Except all the parent comments of the discussion just said "Pro" and/or "M1 Mac", yours is the first that specified 13" MBP. So there seems to be some confusion and/or disagreement about what is being discussed.

Good point.

To clarify the M1 Macs, not Pro, Max, or Ultra can only support one external display. This also seems to be the case with the non-Pro/Max/Ultra M2 macs.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#192
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citing IBM as good at design makes this read like a parody. Everything IBM does is so hilariously ugly in the least imaginative, boring, industrial way that they’ve gone through “boxy” into some other universe where it’s almost — but not quite — good style. For crying out loud, everything they make is black . There are famous Apple ads deriding the bland corporate look of IBM!

The ThinkPad is and was it's own world of design, it was well thought of at the time of its introduction - because it looked different than other laptops.

And they designed it with channels to egress a water spill into the keyboard past critical components, thus providing a very reasonable chance of laptop survival.

Unlike Apple who put the high power display powerline immediately next to the CPU one. One drop, and the CPU is gone. (IIRC from Rossman's repair videos).

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#193
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. Doggedly sticking to a single button mouse. Putting charging port on the bottom of a mouse because designers know best. Calculators that produce wrong answers if one types before the beautiful animations finish. Keyboards so thin and heavily integrated dust can break them, and cannot be repaired without accessing main board. Evidence suggests to me that Apple's record on utility is mixed.

They'll fix that in a few years. I suspect Ive was fired because he created the craziness of 2012-2017 post Jobs era. Trashcan, no ports, touch bar, mouse charging etc etc. These days I have moderate confidence Apple will fix its issues. Eventually.

Yup, firing Ive was the first step in the right direction.

Of course, we didn't see the effects until now because a trillion dollar ship takes a while to turn around.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, those trailers with him speaking are the stuff I MISS the most, it was the last reminder of that old Apple now that keynotes and product launch commercials are so bland and boring I don't even bother to watch them anymore.

Apple keynotes we're such an amazing thing that every 6-12 months to this day I remember how much I enjoyed them almost two decades ago.

It was unreal. I wish I could feel the same excitement about a product now as I did back then with the Jobs keynotes.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#195
post #25

At work, the new MacBooks with HDMI are trickling in and I've never seen so much excitement around a laptop. People (mostly Product people) just giddy they don't need a dongle to connect to screens. I didn't realize how much people hate dongles.

It’s a good example of the difference between product and service design —- the product designer wants to prune ports to make the hardware smaller, lighter, and sleeker, while the service designer wants the user to not have to spend an hour browsing paid Amazon reviews to find the one dongle that will work, won’t catch on fire, and can get delivered before they have to get on a flight for a client presentation.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#196
Don't quit until the money is in the bank. I mean it. Don't trust your boss or HR or anyone. People can be capricious and you don't want your hard earned compensation to be subject to this. The HR department is not there for you - they are there to protect the company.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#197
post #12

I prefer the current balance of Ive-inspired-designs WITHOUT Ive's obsessions. But something also not frequently said: Apple had amazing designs (compared to the rest of the industry), for 2 decades before Ive started his thing. Heck, NeXT too. Also, if I had to suffer yet another cookie-cutter Ive post-release video about a product, I'd kill myself...

Oh man, those trailers with him speaking are the stuff I MISS the most, it was the last reminder of that old Apple now that keynotes and product launch commercials are so bland and boring I don't even bother to watch them anymore.

I’m excited to see stuff coming back like MagSafe and Claris The dogcow. The presentations might not be as great but the content is what’s important.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#198

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

Anyone in a leadership position has a responsibility to measure their words carefully, especially in a farewell email. "Sadly, rivers dry out, and when they do, you look for a new one." broadcasts extreme negativity to the people who remain. It almost reads like a cautionary warning followed by advice. One can write a heartfelt goodbye without ambiguity. Assuming the ambiguity was unintentional, the author was carele…

I think honesty is a better approach.

A team or an organisation that cannot look at itself critically and recognise its problems is unable to remedy them.

When people are afraid to speak about problems, those problems are more likely to remain. That's not a healthy culture.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#199
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll fix that in a few years. I suspect Ive was fired because he created the craziness of 2012-2017 post Jobs era. Trashcan, no ports, touch bar, mouse charging etc etc. These days I have moderate confidence Apple will fix its issues. Eventually.

Yup, firing Ive was the first step in the right direction. Of course, we didn't see the effects until now because a trillion dollar ship takes a while to turn around.

Not even about the money.

Hardware involves making things, the turnaround time is nonzero.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#200
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. Doggedly sticking to a single button mouse. Putting charging port on the bottom of a mouse because designers know best. Calculators that produce wrong answers if one types before the beautiful animations finish. Keyboards so thin and heavily integrated dust can break them, and cannot be repaired without accessing main board. Evidence suggests to me that Apple's record on utility is mixed.

They'll fix that in a few years. I suspect Ive was fired because he created the craziness of 2012-2017 post Jobs era. Trashcan, no ports, touch bar, mouse charging etc etc. These days I have moderate confidence Apple will fix its issues. Eventually.

Let’s be fair: Apple has had sufficient time to revise all of these post-Jobs Ive-era designs. Ive himself was still in charge when the trash can hit the bin, and they’ve more or less fixed the port situation on most of their models (I still have disagreements with some of their choices but we can at least say they’re debatable now).

But they just released a revision of the 13” MacBook Pro with the touchbar. And while I know they have a hard time course-correcting bad design choices on their biggest product lines, there’s no excuse for not having revised the Magic Mouse 2 by this point.

Also while this discussion has been mostly focused on hardware, let’s not forget that Apple is selling 6K displays while displaying all the signs and symptoms of an organization absolutely allergic to on-screen chrome in every release of Mac OS X for the past few years as well as the next major revision they just announced.

I’ll put a lot at Ive’s feet, but only for the time he was actually there and in charge of design.

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