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Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#191

Post by fauigerzigerk »

deckard1 wrote: post #167
xhrpost wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine having a piece of software where you have 95% global market dominance, a near complete monopoly. And then decide not to update said software in the slightest (other than security fixes) for 6 straight years. Kind of mind blowing.

that was the point. The entire point of IE was to embrace and extinguish the nascent web. With Netscape being cross-platform and the rise of Java, MS was feeling the threat to their Windows platform. Apple is doing a similar thing with Safari. Their App Store is their money maker. It's the whole reason they force Firefox and Chrome to use standards-lagging and neutered WebKit on iOS. Google doesn't like the web, eith…

> And Google performs an update regularly to their algorithm. At which point all websites have to do an SEO dance and hope it rains again. Google does this to prevent people from focusing on other search engines

Now that sounds really far fetched. It's like claiming Apple's developer documentation is so terrible to make sure devs have no time left to develop for other platforms :)

What would you say if Google never changed its algorithm? Surely, that would be evidence of a stagnant monopolist no longer finding it necessary to invest in the product.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#192

Post by z3t4 »

microSnowball wrote: post #39
space_ghost wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly remember using Firebug in Firefox (mind-blowing tools, for the time) in ~2008 and having to debug issues in IE, which had the equivalent of a Check Engine Light for debugging.

Lol I remember that little yellow triangle. The source of so much pain.

undefined is not a function

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#193

Post by lofatdairy »

deckard1 wrote: post #167
xhrpost wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine having a piece of software where you have 95% global market dominance, a near complete monopoly. And then decide not to update said software in the slightest (other than security fixes) for 6 straight years. Kind of mind blowing.

that was the point. The entire point of IE was to embrace and extinguish the nascent web. With Netscape being cross-platform and the rise of Java, MS was feeling the threat to their Windows platform. Apple is doing a similar thing with Safari. Their App Store is their money maker. It's the whole reason they force Firefox and Chrome to use standards-lagging and neutered WebKit on iOS. Google doesn't like the web, eith…

>We don't have an open web today. We have three platforms. We have the Microsoft Windows platform, the Apple App Store platform, and the Google Web Platform.

Somewhat related: I had the pleasure of attending a talk given by Fernando Pérez (Jupyter) a while back. He made a very similar point, saying "there are only 3 computers today: Azure, AWS, and GCP". I'm not quite cynical enough believe that Google or MS would ever do something to lock down their cloud services to only their consumer products, I think the scale of this oligopoly can't really be understated, and it seems that we're moving away from personal computers and back to the time-sharing systems from before.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#194

Post by z3t4 »

skittleson wrote: post #99
wolframhempel wrote: post #10

I started my career 2008 building real estate and stock news websites. Back then, sooooo much of my days were spent making things "IE compatible" using techniques like: - creating sprite sheets of transparent png corners and sides that one could arrange in a table around an element to create drop-shadows and rounded corners - putting single pixel, transparent gifs at the end of floated containers because clearfix use…

I remembered these days as well. There wasn't a lot of resources out their either. Getting everything pixel perfect was the goal. HTML emails were extra tricky since they displayed differently in each client.

Pixel perfect existed in an era where almost everyone had 800x600 screens. Today it's about adapting to many different screen sizes and devices. So when people say pixel perfect today they're 20+ years too late. :P

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#195

Post by somehnacct3757 »

mrtksn wrote: post #186
somehnacct3757 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market forces work the other way. If Safari can't do something, like say if it can't work with webgl 2.0 until four and a half years after every other major browser adds support, devs will avoid using it and middleware will have to maintain support for webgl 1.0 longer. This slows down adoption of web standards and affects everyone. The only property that benefits from dragging your heels on webgl 2.0 adoption is…

Sure, it will have an effect but Apple's market share is tiny. If there was something great to be done with the stuff that Apple is dragging their feet to implement, we would have it on other platforms and Apple will actually be forced to act on it.

There's many ways to measure market share and when you look at monetizable users, Apple platforms have an outsized amount of big spenders compares to Android or web platforms. As I already said, this gives them considerable influence in what does and doesn't get adopted by developers. This is the opposite of how you claim it works.

We're going to have to agree to disagree because your argument you've made twice now without adaptation is a bit absurd. If Safari doesn't implement it it must not be important? I am now conscious of my original comment being inexplicably downvoted and I'm worried I might be banging my head against Apple fanboys instead of having a discussion about corporate influence over web standards. There is considerable evidence for this and I've given it in this thread.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#196

Post by brutusborn »

night-rider wrote: post #189
brutusborn wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you joking? Why would you punish people for using old tech?

It’s a liability. The problem with security measures is that there is no immediate reward, but a few years down the line and you get ransomware’d you would want to have replaced legacy systems with modernised software and hardware. You need to weigh the cost of modernisation versus getting embarrassingly pwned.

Ah I understand now.

A fine is a bad idea since companies should be able to take risk freely as long as this risk isn't socialized. I don't get fined for leaving my door unlocked, because it is my prerogative whether I take that risk. If risky behaviour affects others, then fines would be appropriate (e.g. managing customer data)

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#197

Post by Bilal_io »

ratww wrote: post #138
dheerajvs wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't be able to celebrate for a long time to come. I have to support running an Outlook add-in in Outlook 2016 on Windows, which uses the IE11 rendering engine.

Just in case you haven’t heard: Microsoft recently announced that they won’t hold it against you if you drop support for IE11 in add-ins. Your customers might still complain, though. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-US/office/dev/add-ins/develop/...

I am sure Microsoft wouldn't have held it against you to drop support for IE back in 2010. It's always been about the customer.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#198

Post by ChrisArchitect »

Seeing a timeline animation of browser share made me both nostalgic about the browser wars days and how IE took over after (and for a time was the best), and also sad about what happened to Firefox, which was so exciting in those early days becoming very much a standard but falling to the wayside as Chrome snuck up. It's just sad where it ended up today as an also ran for some/holdout for others (I still insist my parents use it etc) with difficult marketing and who knows what level of development behind the scenes. Sigh.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#199

Post by CptJupiterNorth »

Sunspark wrote: post #155
jrochkind1 wrote: post #127

MOSTLY. > Windows releases where Internet Explorer will still be available after June 15, 2022, include Windows 7 ESU, Windows 8.1, and all versions of Windows 10 LTSC client, IoT, and Server. > "The Internet Explorer (IE) 11 desktop application will end support for Windows 10 semi-annual channel starting June 15, 2022," Microsoft says on the IE11 lifecycle page. > As Microsoft further explains, "for supported operat…

I've never quite understood this MS policy of "ending support" but continuing support anyway for extended support contract customers or for specific versions, etc. The way I look at it, MS obviously is actually continuing to support the product, they are just choosing not to make it available to most people. It's still supported, just not for everyone. I feel that if security patches are still being produced, they sh…

The more people using your old software legitimately, the more people you have to tell that the bug they found isn't a security issue worthy of your time. Plus it's a kick in the pants to get organizations who can to upgrade.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

#200

Post by prmoustache »

izzydata wrote: post #16
timeimp wrote: post #5

Does anyone work in an “enterprise” environment who have been dreading this day? Any apps / mainframes / industrials systems that needs IE to run?

At my office we use this software called Application Lifecycle Management that still requires Internet Explorer. Apparently they made some kind of containerized IE launcher for it. I suppose that was easier than porting it to a modern browser.

>Application Lifecycle Management that still requires Internet Explorer.

That is so ironic. Love it.

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