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Fresh – Next-gen web framework

fresh.deno.dev

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Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#191

Post by noobermin »

wruza wrote: post #179
jokoon wrote: post #168

> Island based client hydration Software development already has its own vocabulary, but I feel quite ignorant now.

Instead of sending a rendering routine which then fetches data and renders everything on an empty page, they prerender a part of a template (constant) and send it along with fetch-data routine which only fills in missing values later. That’s why you sometimes see a form but its values are shaded for a while. This makes them think that you’re less annoyed because at least something is visible quicker. Island-based pro…

Isn't this how webpages used to work with jquery? Are you telling me everything just went full circle back?

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#192

Post by christophilus »

rubenfiszel wrote: post #35

I both love it and hate it. Most of the features are similar to sveltekit/next.js. I get that the biggest benefit is the deno deploy integration for ssr on the edge. But I would have highly preferred a new flavor of sveltekit where deno deploy is a build adapter (like cloudflare workers currently are) and the script part of svelte could be set as "ts-deno". No need to reinvent the wheel yet again and split the ecosys…

It uses Preact, just in time bundling, and a number of other concepts that would probably be a pain to integrate seamlessly into those. Seems like a justifiable from scratch prototype.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#193

Post by quickthrower2 »

damowangcy wrote: post #41
lmiller1990 wrote: post #9

I don't fully understand the difference between this (and something like Remix, which seems similar) and other frameworks like Next.js (React) and Nuxt.js (Vue). Can someone explain a bit about the differences, and pros/cons to each?

The end result might be same but all of these frameworks/library/tools have some tricks up their sleeves that makes things easier for developers to implement certain functionality. The major difference with Fresh is that it runs everything just-in-time when it is needed, hence doesn't require building no shipping anything by default to the client(but you can still ship some JS for client side interactivity). The key…

How does the counter demo work? I saw no network requests so it must be supporting a client side computational model. There must be TS to JS compilation of some sort.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#194

Post by axlee »

LeanderK wrote: post #148
eyelidlessness wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rehydration is a really big deal. Sounds dorky but it dramatically speeds up load times and such by serving flat HTML and injecting JS afterward, like the old days, except you can write code like it's not the old days. Hydration is actually a compromise, and not a great one for UX. It’s in fact been said to be “pure overhead”, which I think is an overstatement but only slightly. What you’re describing in the abstra…

if the code is the same on the server, one could serialise the state and transfer it with the html, right?

That's how it works.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#195

Post by eitland »

creamyhorror wrote: post #158
btbuildem wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean JS running server-side? That's a full-stop dealbreaker for me.

Sorry, this is just funny considering how JS-on-the-server has become a (the?) dominant web paradigm among startups and newer tech teams. It's like a comment from 2014.

Just because it is the dominant paradigm doesn't mean it is a good paradigm.

Remember PHP was a dominant paradigm for a long time. (I actually don't dislike PHP that much myself but it is a good example since many dislike it intensely.)

Edit: JS, until TypeScript, had almost all the disadvantages of PHP (bug prone syntax, lack of typing, inconsistent ordering of method parameters etc) but not PHPs advantages (shared nothing, fast dev cycle). The only advantages JS had was that it looked cleaner and that one could use the same language frontend and backend.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#196

Post by Winsaucerer »

0des wrote: post #28

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm in Australia, and I see 18ms (with cache disabled) for the main page, then another 14 to 30ms for the js bundles (looks like some are done side by side).

The image of the dinosaur drinking takes 386ms, and the favicon is 132ms.

So for text and a button to increment/decrement specifically, it seems quite quick.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#197

Post by justshowpost »

damowangcy wrote: post #41
lmiller1990 wrote: post #9

I don't fully understand the difference between this (and something like Remix, which seems similar) and other frameworks like Next.js (React) and Nuxt.js (Vue). Can someone explain a bit about the differences, and pros/cons to each?

The end result might be same but all of these frameworks/library/tools have some tricks up their sleeves that makes things easier for developers to implement certain functionality. The major difference with Fresh is that it runs everything just-in-time when it is needed, hence doesn't require building no shipping anything by default to the client(but you can still ship some JS for client side interactivity). The key…

Nit-pick: It does have a build step to generate the manifest file, at least currently. This is needed because Deno Deploy still lacks dynamic imports. So, their claims of no build step are as of now still aspirational.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#199

Post by justshowpost »

gavinray wrote: post #36

On the part about adding interactivity: > "To include this in a page component, one can just use the component normally. Fresh will take care of automatically mounting the island component on the client with the correct props:" How does a developer know what rendering is going to take place client-side vs server-side, and is there any way to control this? Or is it all fully "magical"

Well, you know by seeing that the component is located in the special `islands` folder.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#200

Post by csmpltn »

chrischen wrote: post #175
jokoon wrote: post #168

> Island based client hydration Software development already has its own vocabulary, but I feel quite ignorant now.

Knowing what it is now, describing it that way makes total sense... but it only works for people after knowing what it is... kind of like an inside joke. For anyone wondering what it means: it ships only the JS for select components (usually ones that have some sort of client-side interactivity, such as the incrementing counter on their demo page), so it only has to hydrate that part (where hydration is reconciling t…

I'm not an Uncle Bob fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he wrote a somewhat famous article about this phenomenon: http://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html

With each new wave - we get people that either lack the time, the willpower or the conditions to understand what came before them (the ground they're standing on), and this is how we end up rediscovering things every 2-3 years. It's much more tempting to just discard old knowledge, reinvent from scratch.

People were doing "SSR" with PHP on the server-side 30 years ago, and still do today (can you imagine just how much progress that platform has made, and how much collective knowledge has been developed around it?). It's just not hip anymore, because it wasn't invented within the past 36 months.

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