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Apple Unveils M2

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Re: Apple Unveils M2

#191

Post by nojito »

smoldesu wrote: post #127
anonymouse008 wrote: post #105

It's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. They are on the cusp on turning Macs into annual upgrades - with meaningful performance upgrades tied to the OS, just like they've done for a decade with the A series / iOS releases. This is firing on all cylinders. The organizational structure and performance is a marvel for this.

Counterpoint: M2 is a tock release, not a tick. This is pretty much the same behavior that ended up getting Intel shot in the foot: leaning too heavily on marginal performance increases from process enhancement will bite you in the butt when your competitors get their tech on your node. Intel and AMD are both going to be on 5nm in 2023, Apple should be pretty worried if this is what they're fighting with. 3nm isn't e…

Only because it’s a COVID year.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#192

Post by freewizard »

conductr wrote: post #147
msh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but only one external display plus the build in display.

Does the 13" MBP support multiple displays? Sorry- I'm horrible at reading Apple Specs and inferring the capabilities

My 13" 2014 MBP supports 2 mDP + 1 HDMI = total 3 external displays.

Running external display at 4k@60Hz is possible but not straight forward, it requires patch core graphic framework, or using 3rd party boot loader. Newer models do not have this limitation afaik.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#193

Post by paulmd »

jcranmer wrote: post #183
paulmd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> x86 is dead, full of security issues to be clear though: spectre/meltdown are not an x86 issue. POWER, SPARC, and indeed even ARM (although only some of their products have OoO/speculation) were affected as well. There is no magic to ARM that magically makes it secure if you don't protect against side-effecting. I generally agree with the rest of your points, Microsoft is stuck in legacy hell with x86 and they are…

> to be clear though: spectre/meltdown are not an x86 issue. POWER, SPARC, and indeed even ARM (although only some of their products have OoO/speculation) were affected as well. There is no magic to ARM that magically makes it secure if you don't protect against side-effecting. IIRC, M1 was even vulnerable to some of the otherwise Intel-only Meltdown (cross-privilege boundaries) exploits, let alone the more-or-less u…

Meltdown wasn't Intel-only - POWER and ARM A75 were affected as well. Meltdown affected everyone except AMD (who have had a similar issue surface themselves recently with their implementation of the PREFETCH instruction) and SPARC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltdown_(security_vulnerabili...

You're not in the minority for thinking this, there was some serious journalistic miscarriage there. To a lot of people, Intel and AMD are the whole world and if it doesn't affect AMD then it's Intel-only. Even people in tech journalism.

(thought I remember Oracle eventually admitting SPARC was vulnerable as well but I can't find it so maybe not)

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#194

Post by 7speter »

smoldesu wrote: post #127
anonymouse008 wrote: post #105

It's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. They are on the cusp on turning Macs into annual upgrades - with meaningful performance upgrades tied to the OS, just like they've done for a decade with the A series / iOS releases. This is firing on all cylinders. The organizational structure and performance is a marvel for this.

Counterpoint: M2 is a tock release, not a tick. This is pretty much the same behavior that ended up getting Intel shot in the foot: leaning too heavily on marginal performance increases from process enhancement will bite you in the butt when your competitors get their tech on your node. Intel and AMD are both going to be on 5nm in 2023, Apple should be pretty worried if this is what they're fighting with. 3nm isn't e…

My understanding is that AMD coasts behind Apple’s process progress at tsmc, seeing as Apple invests the bulk of resources into tsmc’s cutting edge nodes. If apple hits a wall, well so does everyone else depending on the fruits of their r and d.

Also, if Intel can keep up this time, and if tsmc/apple slouches, I wonder if there will be Apple silicon and Intel x86-64/risc macs/apppe devices on available simultaneously?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#195

Post by zamalek »

paulmd wrote: post #179
zamalek wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fanless laptop See also: "how do you provide ever thinner laptops?" The reason you're so sensitive to fans is because Apple's attention to cooling goes far, far, beyond a joke. Modern processors will throttle at their maximum temperature (typically 100C for CPUs). Apple's approach has always been to depend on that as a cooling solution. People have improved the cooling on the M1 to something in the ballpark of the…

> If your workloads don't require extended periods of compute, then the fanless Apples can't be beat. Claiming that the M1 beats x86 laptops across the board is, well, "very uninformed " to say it kindly. OK, but Apple also makes the MBP line with active cooling too?

Sure, but the parent comment was going on about fans.

Edit: you also get insanely specced x86 laptops that have no business being laptops, so for the few who actually buy those monsters the parent comment is also laughable.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#196

Post by yieldcrv »

haunter wrote: post #163

I'll switch once I can play my full Steam library on a machine like this. The power is there for sure.

I'm only a very casual gamer these days (although anyone I go on a date with would only see a gaming accessory or console and immediately think hardcore), I recently went down the gaming rabbithole to see what I can do with my M1.

It seems like MacOS on M1 architecture can play almost everything! Like, there are so many titles that don't have OSX listed as ever being released for, but it can either be played out the box or with a slight tweak. But I guess that does preclude Steam releases if you don't have direct access to the per game, installers.

And nowadays these indie games release on all major consoles, mobile, and windows, macos.

What are you encountering? A few examples on whats missing for you?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#197

Post by eitland »

kyleplum wrote: post #2

I can't help but wonder what Microsoft's answer to Apple Silicon will be going forward. They don't really make hardware, but selling Windows laptops gets harder and harder the further Apple gets ahead. It seems inevitable that there needs to be some ARM-based Windows laptops to compete in perf/watt to the M1/M2 but I don't know what company can provide an ARM chip that competes with Apple at this point.

There are plenty of people who don't like Mac.

Me I am a Linux user, had already had a job that "forced" me to use Linux back in 2009 (yes, my boss demanded everyone used Linux, in 2009 and I absolutely did not complain as it had been my choice since 2005).

I came to Mac that year and was very enthusiastic about what I had heard was like a polished, commercially supported Linux distro.

I left three years later after having spent significant time trying to adapt to it.

I was relieved to get back, even to Windows.

Last fall I got a Mac Mini.

Some of the warts are now fixable, but I only use it for things I won't have to do in anger or fear or anything like that.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#198

Post by Shadonototra »

jmclnx wrote: post #174
Shadonototra wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x86 is dead, full of security issues and is energy-intensive smartphones, even embedded devices, including cars nowadays are all on ARM, servers are building momentum too, not because it is shiny, but because of tangible gains on many aspects > Apple is willing to force its partners and customers to make the switch or get left behind. That's not true at all, the chip doesn't matter when you sell software, hardware an…

> That's not true at all, the chip doesn't matter when you sell software, hardware and services Yes they do, I am typing this in a fully functional 10+ year old Thinkpad running Linux and getting updates to software. I know people with with Apple Laptops that they can no longer get security updates due to the chip change. There only option is to install another OS to keep on that hardware. But they chose to pay for a…

> I know people with with Apple Laptops that they can no longer get security updates due to the chip change. There only option is to install another OS to keep on that hardware.

Why do you lie? The newly announced macOS supports Intel based macs

https://9to5mac.com/2022/06/06/macos-13-ventura-supported-ma...

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#199

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

Shadonototra wrote: post #54
macintux wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s key advantage here, though, is one Microsoft would never voluntarily embrace: abandoning x86-64 in favor of ARM. Apple is willing to force its partners and customers to make the switch or get left behind. Microsoft would never do that, so Windows on ARM will presumably languish in application support indefinitely.

x86 is dead, full of security issues and is energy-intensive smartphones, even embedded devices, including cars nowadays are all on ARM, servers are building momentum too, not because it is shiny, but because of tangible gains on many aspects > Apple is willing to force its partners and customers to make the switch or get left behind. That's not true at all, the chip doesn't matter when you sell software, hardware an…

>That's what Microsoft fanboy don't understand

Maybe if you stop accusing people of being fanboys, discussions could be more productive.

In fact, your entire post is all trolling, FUD, and no substance or arguments.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#200

Post by ntoskrnl »

beckingz wrote: post #5

"M2 takes the industry-leading performance per watt of M1 even further with an 18 percent faster CPU, a 35 percent more powerful GPU, and a 40 percent faster Neural Engine" 18% faster at the same performance per watt is a nice increase. Interesting to see if this will ever make it to their desktop computers.

The 18% is for multithreaded workloads. Have they said anything about single core perf yet?
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