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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

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Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#191

Post by nspattak »

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions around this! We've been working on this since update since we launched the product last year, so we're excited to be able to share it today.

I would really like to buy one BUT I find it a little bit too expensive, especially the price difference for better CPUs I find proportionate. (i would be slightly more tempted if it was for an amd 6000 cpu, they are much better in perf/power, I hope you will reconsider in the next generation when the iGPU will be RDNA based)

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#192

Post by cooperadymas »

pauke wrote: post #176
Goronmon wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently received my first framework laptop after being a loyal Thinkpad user for years. I get excited about different laptops occasionally...and then I remember that I won't have a trackpoint if I switch to a different brand, and I get disappointed. Literally happens every few months.

Business class Dells and HPs have one too. Named differently because TM but good enough.

I would challenge you to find a 2022 Dell or HP with a trackpoint.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#193

Post by dorfsmay »

cf wrote: post #126
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions around this! We've been working on this since update since we launched the product last year, so we're excited to be able to share it today.

I love everything about what you have planned. Is there anything in the works for creating more keyboard options? While mechanical keyboards might be too impractical, even something with bigger arrow keys would be nice.

The day there is a ThinkPad style keyboard (trackpoint, 3 button) and a matte screen, I'll order one immediately, and assuming it lives up to the expectation, I'd order more after that quickly.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#195

Post by dathinab »

freeopinion wrote: post #145
chrisseaton wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is AMD so important to you? Are there any instruction set extensions these days that are only available on AMD? I can only think of things that are the other way around - only on Intel. And if you need something niche like some SIMD extension I guess you're running a server not a laptop?

Why is Intel 12th Gen more important? AMD is important for multiple reasons. First, it shows that they listened to feedback. From way over here in the corner it seems like AMD has been the most requested feature for the Framework. Second, many people perceive that AMD outperforms Intel. Third, many people think it is extremely important to reward positive competition in the market place. Eighth, it would truly, truly…

> First, it shows that they listened to feedback. From way over here in the corner it seems like AMD has been the most requested feature for the Framework.

I would argue one of the most glaring problems with selling Framework laptops was that they where "still" on Intel 11th Gen hardware which is often perceived as "not so grate" of a choice.

I'm sure they would love to also ship AMD based mobos (and Arm too) but it needs to be profitable, i.e. the additional sales gained through also supporting AMD must outclass the higher logistic cost as well as higher development cost. This might not seem like a big deal but from the little experience I have with logistics and things like maintaining Intel and AMD BIOS support, still having pressure to also ship a faster Intel mother board etc. I highly duped this makes any sense at this point in time.

Also, yes many people perceive AMD outperforms Intel, but many also perceive the opposite! Sure competition is grate, but Framework is not yet a well established company. Lastly I don't think they need to technically prove that upgrading to AMD or ARM is possible, the problem is not technology but logistics, resources (BIOS maintenance, testing, etc), supply-chains and potentially shitty contracts and practices by Intel (and other Companies).

So IMHO they need to first establish themself well, and then branch out.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#196

Post by canuckintime »

I'm waiting on alternate screen options. The 3K2K OLED screen on the HP Specter X360[1] would be a great highend option for me.

Framework is suggesting many customisable options but the wifi antenna is behind the screen so it's not a seamless transition. I would be interested in a screenless framework (with keyboard or just the guts) if they simplify wifi.

So a WiFi module or Cellular module would be a definite buy

[1] https://www.theverge.com/22264792/hp-spectre-x360-14-laptop-...

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#197

Post by kitsunesoba »

thrownaway561 wrote: post #132

why am going to pay $1100 for an i5/8gb/265ssd when I can pay $700 for a i5/12gb/1tbHDD. This whole thing reminds me of the PANDA project from early 2000s and you all know how well that project worked out. Laptop are throw aways. At the end of their life you recycle them and get a new one. The single problem I see with all these type of total upgradable devices is that you are still locked into a single vendor. Unles…

Having used a laptop similar to that linked HP in past and now comparing spec sheets, I don’t really think it’s in the same class as the framework laptop at all.

Compared to the framework, the HP’s:

- CPU is a generation behind

- Screen has low PPI (less sharp), very low brightness, and is probably a TN panel, meaning colors will be more dull

- HDD which is a lot slower than an SSD anyway is 5400RPM, which is slow even for an HDD

- Battery is 14Wh smaller

- Webcam is 720p instead of 1080p

- Bluetooth and wifi is a whole major version behind

- Charging port is one of those old terrible barrel jacks that gets loose quickly

And the build quality is most assuredly not in the same universe. Laptops as cheap as this HP are built on razor thin margins, which means that manufacturers are cutting costs wherever possible. This gets you things like creaky flexy cases, loose wobbly hinges, chintzy keyboards, bad trackpads, and oddball bargain basement components with less than amazing performance.

In short it will be a lot less pleasant to use, even ignoring that huge gaps in the spec sheet. Models from other manufacturers that would be more comparable to the framework in specs and fit and finish are the M1 MacBook Air/Pro, Dell XPS 13, and Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#198

Post by dorfsmay »

komadori wrote: post #157
PetitPrince wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any chance to have a trackpoint-style pointing device in the future?

Just to pile on, I would love to buy a Framework laptop instead of more ThinkPads, but I really can't do without a pointing stick keyboard. I even have a Tex Shinobi* for my desktop! I hope that Framework or a 3rd-party accessory can fill this gap in the market. * https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi

To pile on even more... A lot of Linux users used to buy ThinkPad because of the Linux compatibility, the modularity and the build quality, but got addicted to the trackpoint, and this has become the only reason we keep buying them.

A competitor would be very welcomed!whoever is going to take that market will have followers for a long time.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#199

Post by benhurmarcel »

CarVac wrote: post #15
nrp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've gotten requests from a couple of ortholinear keyboard makers on it. With our current Input Cover design, it is technically possible to do, but would have fixed costs that would be extremely difficult to amortize over the number of units we could realistically sell. Because of that, we don't have any active plans for this.

Is there any way a hobbyist can make a custom one that would fit?

The problem is mainly getting switches (and their keycaps) that are thin enough. All the switches that are available to be used by hobbyists (Cherry MX, Kailh Choc...) are way too thick.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#200

Post by guardiangod »

cooperadymas wrote: post #192
pauke wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business class Dells and HPs have one too. Named differently because TM but good enough.

I would challenge you to find a 2022 Dell or HP with a trackpoint.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-elitebook-840-g8-notebo...

Just got a new one from work. It's literally in front of me right now.

Granted the laptop's build quality is questionable (the right hinge's case bulges higher than the left) and the trackpoint has a tendency to get stuck to one direction.

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