Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money • Hacker News Board

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#191

Post by OJFord » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

plsbenice34 wrote: post #116

I bought a double-edged razor as mentioned in the article. Tried it several times, including staring at youtube videos to try to learn. Fucking destroyed my face every time, which is quite embarrassing and upsetting. Found it impossible to get a close shave. Maybe I'm just low IQ but I gave up. Superior people that can do it can fairly look down on me, but there is a market for people like me. I didnt buy a brush, bu…

I've used one exclusively for about five years now, there really doesn't need to be 'a huge ritual' - I just use a bar of soap, rub it into my hands but then on my face instead of rinsing off.

The one I like is sold as for shaving, but it needn't be, and isn't any more expensive than the same brand's handsoaps.

I found it quite anti-climactic when I started, though I was very cautious at first. I think maybe trying to follow videos is just an unhelpful distraction - focus on how it feels instead, touch the top (not blade) to your cheek and angle down until it just starts to engage and stroke; just adjust that angle according to how it feels, not what someone tells you in a video.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#192

Post by ginko » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

>I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you can, but it requires an absurd amount of oil).

That's because many cast iron pans you can get these days have unpolished bottoms unlike antique ones. If you get a polished one (or polish it yourself - there's plenty of youtube videos on that) it'll be incredible non-stick. You can also just get a carbon steel pan which doesn't need polishing.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#193

Post by quesera » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

foobarian wrote: post #113

spacexsucks wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not more inconvenient to use cast iron. I dont have to throw away pans and i am not worried about poisooning my family anymore. The wet razor is much more convenient than the plastic waste. No to mention the enormous environmental cost of slight inconvenience

> It is not more inconvenient to use cast iron For you perhaps. I cannot handle the weight as easily, and there are a lot of extra steps to keep it clean which need handling (especially over a sink). Extrapolate to the whole population and you can see why there is a market for them.

You might like a carbon-steel pan/skillet/wok.

They're light weight, inexpensive, very easy to maintain, and last forever. You do have to dry them before putting them away.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#194

Post by Frost1x » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #143

motohagiography wrote: post #11

I've used a straight razor for almost 20 years. Vindicating to read that the price of a Dovo pays for itself. I think my bar of shaving soap is probably the better part of decade old as well. In the interim, a whole peculiar subculture around shaving has developed, but you don't have to be a part of it to just use a razor. Makes you unreachable by corporate marketing as well, which is itself its own reward.

Straight razor here too. Primarily because I wanted to get off the cost and waste wheel. It’s great. I sharpen my own knife and woodworking tools. So learning to sharpen my razor is no big deal. Now my only expense is occasionally buying some soap or aftershave once a year or so. And my time I suppose maintaining the razor which isn’t much at all.

>And my time I suppose maintaining the razor which isn’t much at all.

Definitely not the case for me. As someone whose been recently exploring properly sharpening some high quality kitchen knives at home, there's a cost in time for sure to do things correclty both learning and executing. Once you learn, it's not too bad but there's a learning curve and time factor that's difficult to ignore. I need to set aside a good hour or 1.5 hours on a given weekend to sharpen my knives (find and soak my soap stone, gather my knives, get back my angles and motions down pat).

I'm still a novice for sure and an expert may be able to sharpen quickly but that's a big difference from just grabbing a new disposable product ready to use. With a straight razor a certain amount of care also needs to be taken when shaving to reduce cuts -- safety razors aren't a bad invention overall. I suspect if you do a lot of regular shaving (e.g. body hair that's not just your face), it might become time consuming.

I'm not saying reuse and repair are bad investments, I'm a huge fan of these ideals, but the time involved can't be entirely ignored for some consumer products. In many (perhaps most) cases, I agree with the thesis of the article that modern business practices are becoming increasingly misaligned from consumers and societies interests and becoming nothing but wealth extraction optimization factories in various forms. But, I think not all products are so clear cut and some legitimate progresses are not reasonable tradeoffs for everyone, like a safety razor (maybe not cartridge based but similar to the one described in this article). Now a safety razor for a cartridge is a pretty close set of advantages/disadvantages with clear cost savings.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#195

Post by namibj » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

tempest_ wrote: post #179

jasonhansel wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't mineral oil now considered carcinogenic?

I have no idea as I don't use the cartridges myself but I think the point is to keep them away from moisture so a closed container with ethanol or food grade oil or whatever would probably work as well.

Ethanol is hygroscopic.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#196

Post by Beldin » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

Meuh. I have a light-coloured beard and modest growth. Daily shaves are more than adequate - due to the light colour, a spot missed one or two days is practically invisible. Hell, you can hardly see the beard until 10 or so days of non-shaving. You can feel it though.

Anyway, I use similar razors such as his and tossed them when I realised they were too dull. A 10 pack could last me a year, but only if I pay attention. Otherwise, it's bound to be closer to 2 years. Note that I don't deliberately do this for costs reasons - I just prefer not to thrash something that is still decently usable.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. Nevertheless, for at least some people, shaving costs about one 10-pack per year.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#197

Post by bitwize » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #46

I don't understand why people think it is so important a thesis to convince people that a person sells something to get as much profit for his product. Much as it is important to educate people of loss leaders, subscription models, brand marketing, and other newer ways profit maximization happens, they aren't really cutting edge concepts either. I make a decent living now, and I use Harry's razors. Could I use and ch…

Harry's is dirt cheap compared to Mach III and the like. I'm saving money by using Harry's now.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#198

Post by naet » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

I've done eggs frequently in cast iron and in non stick and I think they turn out a bit better to my tastes in cast iron, but are slightly easier and quicker in nonstick.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#199

Post by kstenerud » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

h2odragon wrote: post #2

Oster small animal trimmer: $100 or so initial investment; no ongoing costs. Electricity to run it is trivial compared to the light to see yourself shaving. Might need a new set of blades after a couple decades.

I use an Oster as well. You can sharpen the blades with a sharpening stone (definitely recommend doing so once a year - especially if you keep forgetting to oil them like I do), in which case the blades will outlast you.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#200

Post by mirker » Sat, May 07, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

For coffee: French press + grinder is straightforward and has little maintenance. Machines have to be descaled.