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Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

gcaptain.com

191–200 of 206 posts

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>JAG >URL JOs >BAH if only i knew what any of those words mean. Why haven't people learned to describe their abbreviation unless they already pre-established that the audience will definitely know them?

URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Line_Officer basically any officer that isn't a specialist. Doctors and lawyers have artificially high ranks compared to non specialists, but you wouldn't expect them to command a ship.

> but you wouldn't expect them to command a ship.

I know what you mean, but I don't think it would merely be unexpected if one did somehow. I'm pretty sure it isn't possible because, being specialists, they can't also be a line officer. It seems like logic stops them, but then leads me to wonder about the vague possibility of a horribly unfortunate event leaving only specialists on-board... what then? Would logic stop them from sailing, or inexperience and lack of expertise?

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#192
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. The VA already is hiring as many midlevels (NP/PA) as possible so that they don't have to hire MDs. You wouldn't believe how low the bar is to become an NP. PAs receive substantially better training, but at the end of the day they are still midlevels. Worse still, many NP programs are now giving out "doctorates" of nursing practice so that NPs can introduce themselves to the patient as "Dr." Smith. In s…

Is there any evidence that care by midlevels produces worse outcomes for routine cases?

Plenty. Here is perhaps the most recent: https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/scope-practice/...

But of course, nobody cares. The rich will get MDs and the poor will get midlevels.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Surface ships are now just sitting ducks. Does the US have more carriers under construction? You need carriers to launch planes, but I guess the future could be quadcopter drones launched from subs?

You need carriers to launch planes But are planes the most cost-effective form of throwing high-explosive long distances? Once, they were. They had a much greater range than a battleship's guns and thus obsoleted the battleship. These days, missiles have double the range of carrier aircraft. So a very inexpensive frigate with long-range missiles is far more cost-effective than a huge expensive Carrier Group. (Most of…

Long-range missiles can only work if you know in advance where the target will be. Manned tactical aircraft are still far better at searching out unknown targets, and at handling dynamic situations like close air support. Perhaps that will change in a few decades as sensors and AI technology improve, but the reality today is that long-range missiles simply can't fulfill the required mission set.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#195

" If crews can’t use new types of paint, If crews are restricted from using OSPHO (a mild acid used to clean up rust stains) in port or bosuns chairs over the side if we don’t have enough supply ships or crew on those supply ships if crews are committing suicide and arson because of conditions at shipyards tasked with painting old ships if the Navy doesn’t seek out the advice of commercial professionals at companies…

> Shell if the Army and Air Force continue to get all the attention in Ukraine This is a great point that I started thinking about 2-3 days ago, i.e. that the present war in Ukraine is, almost by definition, a continental war (think Napoleon or the Eastern Campaign in WW2), and, as such, that an organisation like the US Navy might feel like it has been left out (like this quote actually emphasises). At which point it…

The military pivot towards treating China as the primary adversary already happened during the Obama administration, well before the current war in Ukraine. Russia can cause some trouble but they are too poor, weak, and corrupt to ever be a serious strategic competitor. All major defense procurement programs are now primarily focused on producing a force that will be able to defeat China in a major regional conflict across the entire western Pacific theater.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>JAG >URL JOs >BAH if only i knew what any of those words mean. Why haven't people learned to describe their abbreviation unless they already pre-established that the audience will definitely know them?

Because I’m replying to someone who would know what those acronyms are. The ELI5 is that the Navy pays officers who do the core ship/flying activities quite well. Compared to their civilian peers, Navy lawyers, doctors, and cyber people don’t get paid well. The posted article is about rust on ships. A ships management team is paid well. Low pay is unlikely to be the cause of dissatisfaction. To be clear, “paid well”…

I was a SWO before going into medicine. My first divo tour was in the engineering dept and my second was in weapons. Did well in both. I'm not sure I agree with you about the SWOs or pilots getting paid well relative to their civilian peers.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#197

This looks like the same phenomenon as the crisis in staffing nurses that was discussed here the other day. Careerist, indifferent management giving the people on the front line inadequate resources and then blaming them when things start to look shabby, or when someone dies. Scapegoating the people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, who are tired, inadequately trained, and inured to a climate of normaliz…

> Why does this malady strike the U.S. Navy and healthcare so severely? Totally government run in the case of the military, and healthcare is the most heavily regulated industry (by far) in the US. Heavy bureaucratic regulations make an organization unable to adapt to local and/or changing circumstances. I read in the book "The Pity of War" by Ferguson that the reason the death rates of the German army in WW1 were so…

That's incorrect. In World War 1 both sides had extremely rigid operational plans. The German operational plan even included specific times down to the hour, for when specific bridges and road junctions should be captured.

Indeed, what saved the Entente in World War 1 was the fact that Belgium, which had been expected to roll over and allow the German army unmolested free passage, actually called up its military and fought. That ruined the German timetables, allowing France to complete its mobilization and brought the British into the war preventing a quick German victory on the Western Front.

Towards the end of the war, yes, Germany was beginning to move towards what we would consider a "commander's intent"-based system. Erwin Rommel's text, Infantry Attacks, captures this transition. However, it's inaccurate to say that the German military was any less rigid than the British.

It is also inaccurate to say that the death rates of the German army were any less than they were for the British. Perhaps in 1914 and 1915, as well-trained German regulars were facing off against the "Pals Brigades", the Germans inflicted more casualties than they received. But by the end of the war, as the German economy was crumbling and the prospect of US involvement made the German generals desperate, they resorted to mass infantry charges with relatively untrained soldiers, and took extremely heavy casualties as a result.

If anything, your description of the German army is more accurate for the Wehrmacht in World War 2 than it is for the Kaiser's army.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does this malady strike the U.S. Navy and healthcare so severely? Totally government run in the case of the military, and healthcare is the most heavily regulated industry (by far) in the US. Heavy bureaucratic regulations make an organization unable to adapt to local and/or changing circumstances. I read in the book "The Pity of War" by Ferguson that the reason the death rates of the German army in WW1 were so…

That's incorrect. In World War 1 both sides had extremely rigid operational plans. The German operational plan even included specific times down to the hour, for when specific bridges and road junctions should be captured. Indeed, what saved the Entente in World War 1 was the fact that Belgium, which had been expected to roll over and allow the German army unmolested free passage, actually called up its military and…

Ferguson, the author, backs it up with statistics.

"As Table 32 shows, the greatest of all the paradoxes of the First World War is that, despite being disastrously disadvantaged in economic terms, the Central Powers were far more successful in inflicting death on their enemies. According to the best available totals for wartime military deaths, some 5.4 million men fighting for the Entente powers and their allies lost their lives, the overwhelming majority of them killed by the enemy. The equivalent total for the Central Powers is just over 4 million. The Central Powers' superiority in killing was thus of the order of 35 per cent. The official British statistics published shortly after the war give an even higher margin of 50 per cent, as do the figures in a number of modern textbooks.52 In other words, the Central Powers were at least a third better at mass slaughter." pg 294

"The trouble was - and here the excuses must stop - that the entire culture of the British regular army militated against effective improvisation. The command structure was based on obedience to superiors and suspicion of subordinates; men could still advance according to their connections; and commanders could still be 'unstuck' by personal quarrels.83 This could have serious repercussions: when Haig questioned Rawlinson's original Somme plan, the latter felt unable to stand his ground, with the result that Haig was able to insist on the suicidal breakthrough objective. As Rawlinson said, 'It is a gamble to go for an unlimited offensive but D. H. wants it and I am prepared to undertake anything within reason [sic].'84 An Army Commander did not presume to correct the Commander-in-Chief, even when tens of thousands of men's lives were at stake.85 Similar inhibitions existed at every level. Orders were issued at the top and fed down the line; there was little traffic in the other direction. As a result, officers, NCOs and men grew accustomed to 'waiting for orders'. In battle, as J. M. Bourne has remarked, 'when German shelling interrupted communications paralysis set in'. To adapt the not inappropriate language of industrial organization, this was 'line management', and it provided no mechanism by which the views of 'junior line managers' could be relayed back to head office.86 Partly for this reason, the proponents of a more technocratic approach made slow headway against the traditional believers in war as a moral rather than material contest.87 Too much emphasis was placed on morale, courage and discipline; not enough on fire-power and tactics." pg 305

"These German tactical strengths were rooted in a distinctive military culture. According to Dupuy, the German military establishment had 'discovered the secret of institutionalizing military excellence'.109 Martin Samuels likewise points to a distinctively German philosophy of combat, which acknowledged its fundamentally chaotic character.'10 This in turn influenced the way command structures evolved. The Germans favoured 'directive command' (task-oriented and decentralized decision making, flexible at all levels) whereas the British preferred 'restrictive control', which deliberately discouraged initiative."1 Differences in training also followed logically from this. German 'chaos theory' demanded a high level of training to promote adaptability; the British approach required only obedience. Moreover, the German officer did not stop learning on obtaining his commission; the officer corps was meritocratic, and dud officers were ruthlessly weeded out."2 This line of argument has been further developed by the work of Gudmundsson on stormtroop tactics, which (he argues) depended for their success on the existence of a 'self-educating officer corps'."3 pg 309

If that's not enough, there's plenty more backup in the book. It's a good read, I recommend it.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shell if the Army and Air Force continue to get all the attention in Ukraine This is a great point that I started thinking about 2-3 days ago, i.e. that the present war in Ukraine is, almost by definition, a continental war (think Napoleon or the Eastern Campaign in WW2), and, as such, that an organisation like the US Navy might feel like it has been left out (like this quote actually emphasises). At which point it…

paganet says> ""why should we assign so much money to the Navy when we're most worried about a continental war?"." Russia values the coastal territory it has grabbed b/c d they can use it to support a navy, something Russia has historically always wanted and needed (to project military power). But they have always done poorly and continue to do so: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-russias-military-is-so-sh... Thwar…

I do think Russia/USSR has focused primarily on the "heartland" [1], they have had some navy power but it looked almost always as an afterthought (their nuclear subs are a special, almost separate, case, they're more nuclear-oriented than sea/ocean-oriented). The US (following Britain) has of course almost been a world power that has focused on the Rimland-like spaces (plus islands like Japan).

Having one aircraft carrier or ten-eleven won't make that much of a difference when the battle happens on the steppes of Eurasia (like it is now happening in Donbas), there are only so many such carriers that one can place inside a "small" sea like the Black Sea (assuming that they'll be allowed to pass the Bosphorus).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_J._Spykman#Geostrateg...

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only ~30% of people on HN are from the US Does anyone have time to cite a source for this? I was thinking this number was a lot higher.

Sure! There are no definitive numbers, but we have a few data points: Dang mentions quite often that HN has a very international readership, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23363430 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438403 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052434 An old poll with 32% US (probably the number I remembered): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13819771 There's also a…

> An old poll with 32% US

> There's also a recent poll w/ 47%

Clearly you need one more poll to decide this, as per XKCD 927.

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