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The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

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Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#191
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely lost me at "they're general purpose computing devices." This is not even remotely a reasonable definition of today's smartphones.

I beg to differ. They might not be suitable for "power users" or Stallman but for most people they're fine. I've got at least a few non-technical friends that haven't owned a laptop or PC in years and do all their "computing" from their phone and maybe an iPad. The only reason my parents still have a computer is because they like to look at their photos on a large screen, but outside of that one use-case (which could…

Shop at higher prices for smartphone users.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#192

I like the idea of a more open phone a lot but dispute the "Smartphones are shit" premise. I think modern smart phones are an unbelievably awesome value. Battery, display, wireless and processing power have advanced at such an unbelievable rate that we have something in our pockets that far exceeds predictions of 20, 30, 100 years ago. The problem is that we don't want to pay what it really costs to have such a great…

The fundamental problem seems to be that there is one group of people who believe that smartphones should be 'real computers', and another group that wants it to be something different, more limited. For my personal usage I'm in the second group. I have several 'real computers', and I just want my phone to do phone stuff, and do it without getting in my way. I have no interest in switching from my iPhone to a PinePho…

I'm with you. And the device vs. computer thing is not just about hardware, it is much more about software. Not everything encountered in real life will be as easy to use as an app, nor should it be. I see this at work right now, people are getting third party, external UI interfaces just to avoid working in the ERP system that contains all necessary information. And it sucks.

That being said, I just had a deep look at the pinephone. And to be honest, I like it, hardware is decent enough, price is good and I like the idea of manual kill switches for various stuff. Thinking about what I use my de-googled, and shot, Pixel 2 for, so, I think the pinephone won't cut it. And the killer is actually banking apps. My banking app was hard enough to get running under CalyxOS and microG, I don't have the stomach to try to get it running under Linux... Something like GrapheneOS or CalyxOS on the pinephone would be great so!

Well, I guess it will be a refurbished Pixel 3 or something when the time comes that my trusted Pixel 2 completely falls apart...

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#193

Just be careful depending on LineageOS too much. I bought a 1.5-year-old officially supported device (OnePlus Nord), only to have support for it stop 2 months later.

It's sub-optimal, but I guess now you would have to trust the community build - https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/rom-11-unofficial-lineage...

I’m still thinking about which ROM to switch to (I luckily rarely need my phone, so being somewhat outdated currently is not too much of an issue), but I didn’t know that this build also included a normal version without microg, so that’s good to know, thanks.

edit: Looks like the maintainer also plans to go official with LineageOS 19 again, so that’s even better.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#194
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>out of the box support for the laptop components Drivers are going to be part of the kernel. The only thing I would expect to vary by distro is probably the way firmware blobs are packaged (which is just a matter of installing the appropriate firmware blob package or worst case grabbing the blobs from kernel.org.) In general your hardware shouldn't constrain your distro choice outside of very weird hardware or very…

This was trying to get a Framework laptop running, and there were literally 3 Fedora team devs working on compatibility for it as a priority and stuff still didn't work. I only went to Fedora after I couldn't even get through the setup tools for Manjaro, Ubuntu, Debian, or Pop. I'd look into swapping out my UI if I had any confidence I knew what was going on and how to revert it. I mostly bricked an Ubuntu install ea…

Don't run frankenDebian and your life will be much easier.

My friend that bought a Framework as well had no trouble putting Debian 11 on it, you just need to add the non-free repo to /etc/apt/sources.list, install the non-free firmware with apt and reboot: https://community.frame.work/t/debian-11-on-the-framework-la...

Wayland also works out of the box on Debian, I have been using it for a few years on a Ryzen laptop without issue.

Fiddling with the OS is a rarity for me. Back when I was a teen I do recall the trouble that was upgrading Ubuntu or getting openSuse running after accidentally filling the disk fully.

Switching to Debian simplified life, I don't invest effort into my OS (eg: opening up a terminal) with any kind of regularity and it simply works, letting me focus on actual work (and video games :D).

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#195
> Don't smartphones... kind of suck?

No, not really, they take great photos, I can surf internet, send mesages, check my calendar etc. Though I was doing most of this already before Android/iOS on my Symbian/Java phones, "smartphones" just made the experience more pleasant.

> How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years?

Had to replace? 0. But I wanted to replace the phone (running 5th phone in 11 years, technically 6th but I gave the last phone to wife after few months and returned back to previous one because I couldn't stand the size), because I wanted better specs, better camera etc. Since smartphones reached certain level of performance I don't really have this need since my last phone bought in 2018. I wanna upgrade it already for like 2 years but there are no available compact options to upgrade really until recently (great camera, good battery, compact size).

> Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones, or have you tried to absolve some regret and taken a few trips to an e-waste "recycler"?

No, previous phones I donated to mother, now with older kids they will be inheriting my phones, though I still have "in drawer" 2 decent older phones in case current phone would break so I (or wife) can use something temporarily.

> The battery no longer holds a charge;

It holds still pretty well even after 4 years, can get me through the day, which is all I need. That's why you buy phone and take into consideration battery life deteroriation over 2-3 years, so you don't buy phone with crap capacity straight out of box (see Pixel 4A or Mi 9SE which I bought considered to buy).

> it gets way too hot;

No, I don't game.

> replacing a cracked screen costs more than just getting a new phone;

In 11 years I've never break my phone screen, neither did wife which use phone few years less and her poor phones take lot of beating, but we use tempered glass screen protectors.

> new updates are unbearably slow; updates stop altogether; support stops altogether.

I don't really care about any of these, if it works don't fix it. Why would I upgrade to new shiny Android version which peaked anyway around 7-8 and there is hardly anything useful introduced since then. Apps are still supported.

Btw. in 11 years I've never used official ROM, always only custom ROMs, mostly LineageOS, maybe 7+ years my phones don't have even gapps, luckily I don't use ride hailing apps or grocery delivery from phone (why would I use horrible small screen of phone instead mice and 32" display? and if your service doesn't have web version for PC it doesn't deserve my money), otherwise it could be a problem.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#196
post #99
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you care too much about privacy, GrapheneOS is the way to go Not so sure about that. If you care about SECURITY than GrapheneOS is pretty much the best choice on the market, comparable only to iOS or bare Android on Pixel Phones. Everyone else isn't even reasonable to compare against it. But wether it's more private with sandboxed Google Play Services vs Lineage OS and MicroG or iOS is not such an obvious choice…

If you want privacy, don't install anything Google or microG. Surprisingly many apps from Play store (via Aurora or sideloaded) still work (not all features though) - but if you want privacy, don't even use Play store via Aurora.

Not using Aurora and micro made banking impossible in my case... Well, I almost completely de-googled so I don't complain too much. Maybe keeping my old phone for banking only and using a pinephone for everything else would work, I have to investigate that!

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#197

I'd totally use a more open-source phone OS, if only there weren't communications and banking apps that check to make sure you're running an unmodified major manufacturer's OS, and refuse to run if they find any evidence that you aren't.

Which major banking and communications companies refuse to let you access their services via browser? This is when we absolutely need to name and shame.

Postbank in Germany, and most other banks, require an app to sign in into their we services and approve money transfers and stuff like that. And Postbank requires, at the very least, microG (well, they did some time ago when I switched from Android to CalyxOS and tried to live without microG...). And yes, this sucks.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#198
post #33
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice is between GrapheneOS + Sandboxed Google play vs LineageOS + MicroG. If you care too much about privacy, GrapheneOS is the way to go. If you want a balance between privacy and usability, LineageOS is the way to go. Also, GrapheneOS only supports Pixel phones. I have tried CalyxOS but there are too many issues.

By "sandboxed Google Play" do you mean using the Aurora app? Coming from iPhone, something I keep forgetting is the full support for PWA apps on Graphene OS. I wish there were PWA versions of apps like Signal, Wire, ProtonMail, and more; so much cleaner to update the app through a deliberate refresh than going through a middle-man service like F-Droid.

Word! PWAs are awesome (for a lot of usecases), and I don't quite get how they are not becoming a center pillar of mobile development.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#199
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snapchat works on google free /e/ OS.

Snapchat makes you pass SafetyNet to be able to log in, and passing SafetyNet requires a signed response from Google's servers. Are you sure it isn't only working with a workaround like signing in on a stock Android device, and then copying the authentication information over?

I just installed it and it works. Got microG to thank for that i guess.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#200

"Don't smartphones... kind of suck?" Yes, they absolutely do. "How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones, " Answer: 'many' in both instances. Where possible, I root my phones and install LineageOS or other similar 'open' O/S. In instances where there's no LineageOS available or where LineageOS doesn't provide a full implement…

I recommend Foxy Droid as a alternative to the official F-Droid client. Much leaner/snappier, missing some features i can live without YMMV.
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