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Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

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Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#191

Post by ratww »

Ygg2 wrote: post #145
werner1886 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have no idea what's he is all about. His message is very clear: Modern software is crap. It's orders of magnitude slower than it should be, it's buggy, and,yes, bloated. And if you ever used any piece of software today I don't see how you can you not agree with it... He is never advocating NOT using engines, but rather that one can be much better and more efficient developer with just a little bit knowled…

> Modern software is crap. It's orders of magnitude slower than it should be, it's buggy, and,yes, bloated. And, that's where he lost me. Software was always crap. Emacs = Eight Megabytes and constantly swapping. Because even if you squeeze every last cent of performance, someone will have a great idea that will spend each dime you saved and then even add some debt on it. Performance is never a positive as much as a…

> Performance is never a positive as much as a disqualifying negative. Features are what sell the software

Except we're talking about video games, where time and time again performance was crucial in achieving new breakthroughs, from Mario's side scrolling, to Carmack's advances in FPSs, to... FFS, we're talking about Unreal 5, this version's selling point is mainly being able to do in realtime what was previously only possible before with offline rendering.

Just because there are trash mobile games that make money doesn't mean there isn't money in high-performance software.

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#192

Post by ratww »

rtpg wrote: post #164
werner1886 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have no idea what's he is all about. His message is very clear: Modern software is crap. It's orders of magnitude slower than it should be, it's buggy, and,yes, bloated. And if you ever used any piece of software today I don't see how you can you not agree with it... He is never advocating NOT using engines, but rather that one can be much better and more efficient developer with just a little bit knowled…

If he’s all about saying modern software is crap, then his opinion isn’t very good imo. I’ll say it again: I think he makes cool stuff! I just don’t think hes right about his judgement here

> If he’s all about saying modern software is crap, then his opinion isn’t very good imo.

That's extremely reductionist. He's saying that modern software is crap regarding performance. And whenever he does complain, he manages to demonstrate it.

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#193

Post by ratww »

rawoke083600 wrote: post #175
rtpg wrote: post #74

Not to tone police that much but I really don't get people like Casey. Like his whole thing is spending a billion years writing his game engine, and then whining about all these "bloated" tools. Just completely dismissive of everything that doesn't align directly with his values (which don't include actually shipping game!) I like people who write their own engines and make bespoke things for fun. Just really dislike…

Who is "Casey" ?

Casey Muratori, the guy who praised UE5 and criticised Unity in the quote in the article.

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#194

Post by markus_zhang »

torginus wrote: post #185
markus_zhang wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks I understand that, just that the whole engine seems to be a huge blob that is difficult to approach. Maybe I should just focus on one part.

This advice is a bit generic - but look at either the official examples or tons of github projects that have C++ in them and try to understand how they work - that's the thing that worked for me.

Thanks! That's one good piece of advice actually. I'll try to find similar projects.

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#196

Post by bick_nyers »

alkonaut wrote: post #151

What’s the story for developing in UE without C++ these days? Can you get along with just scripting and shaders? What sort of functionality would require new C++ and wouldn’t be possible in script? What draws me to Unity is C# because learning C++ is a decade long project.

Blueprints in Unreal is quite, quite powerful. You can do damn near everything with it. For the stuff that you can't do, the asset store is solid.

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#197

Post by jrootabega »

I'm new to Unity and game development, and I'm starting to feel like there's another problem alongside bugs: misinformation. I've been reading through the official manual/prose guides, and many of the chapters blatantly contradict the UI and behavior. Official samples from Unity make typical noob mistakes. Unity employees make incorrect recommendations in the forums. Bug reports will go unacknowledged for a long time, which makes it hard to trust anything you read.

So in addition to having to put in the effort to learn the tools and concepts, you have to be ready to distrust anything the docs and even the employees tell you. Unity itself is a force actively working against you.

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#198

Post by snarfy »

bick_nyers wrote: post #189
maccard wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure where this came from, but it's pretty much nonsense. Tim Sweeney hasn't written rendering code (or engine code) in years, the Unreal rendering team is enormous these days. > But its hell to do any real programming with. A project that took me two weeks or so in C# is taking months to reproduce in C++ and Blueprints. How much of that is familiarity with C# vs unfamiliarity with C++? I find it prett…

Even in Blueprint you can push out code fairly quickly if you are familiar.

Before Blueprints there was Kismet.

My last kismet project looked like an ER diagram for a government database. Kismet had decent grouping objects to where you could organize your Kismet, but even my largest and most complex kismets could have been replaced by about 100 lines of unreal script. It's just not as expressive as code. I miss unreal script.

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#199

Post by rtpg »

mariusor wrote: post #135
rtpg wrote: post #74

Not to tone police that much but I really don't get people like Casey. Like his whole thing is spending a billion years writing his game engine, and then whining about all these "bloated" tools. Just completely dismissive of everything that doesn't align directly with his values (which don't include actually shipping game!) I like people who write their own engines and make bespoke things for fun. Just really dislike…

> Like his whole thing is spending a billion years writing his game engine, [..]Just completely dismissive of everything that doesn't align directly with his values (which don't include actually shipping game!) I think Casey has been vocal enough (at least in his HMH streams) that he is not a game designer, but a game engine programmer. He is trying his hand at making full games, but I wouldn't expect him to skip ove…

I don’t mean to sneer at his choices ( I think it’s cool and fine), I just wish he would spend less time sneering at other peoples choices (especially when that antagonism just makes it harder for someone to not get defensive).

Re: Unreal vs. Unity Opinion

#200

Post by Matl »

panzerboiler wrote: post #125
rtpg wrote: post #74

Not to tone police that much but I really don't get people like Casey. Like his whole thing is spending a billion years writing his game engine, and then whining about all these "bloated" tools. Just completely dismissive of everything that doesn't align directly with his values (which don't include actually shipping game!) I like people who write their own engines and make bespoke things for fun. Just really dislike…

You have been overly dismissive of Casey's work. HH is a treasure, and if you consider that he explained the how and the why of every single line of code, on stream, without cutting any corner, your consideration about the time spent become meaningless. There are people interested in copy-pasting and glueing together pre-baked parts to ship something, and there are people interested in developing a deep understanding…

> You have been overly dismissive of Casey's work.

I am reading it not as what Casey is doing isn't cool, just that it is not at the level to enable Casey to be himself dismissive of other people's work to the extent he is.

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