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Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

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Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#191

Post by jeromegv »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #98
paxys wrote: post #33

Why not just copy paste or screenshot the Tweet? It's bizarre to reference a script from twitter.com directly in your site's source code and then complain that the script is doing exactly what it is supposed to.

Because if it's just a screenshot or your own copy/paste, I have no reason to believe it's real. The only hint of authenticity is that it's served from twitter.com. The fact that there's no way to prove a tweet even happened after it was deleted or account banned seems like a problem to me.

Exactly. A screenshot can be altered. The original embed with twitter javascript was proof that this existed.

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#192

Post by newswasboring »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #186
newswasboring wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not trying to say that this is right or wrong Why are you not, though? I feel like we have been so co-opted by the system that we forgot we are allowed to criticize it. A giant company with billions of dollars should not be given get out of moral jail free cards. They should absolutely be held to higher standards because of all the power they wield.

I feel like two groups are talking over each other. One is saying Twitter shouldn’t have done this and should be called out for breaking a promise. The other group mostly agrees, but is pointing out that problem was giving Twitter so much control over one’s own content in the first place. I agree with this: Banking on what’s nothing more than a handshake is a bad call. Having to go to the court of public opinion is l…

> I agree with this: Banking on what’s nothing more than a handshake is a bad call.

But shouldn't we be striving for a world where it isn't a bad call? Reputation used to mean something, I have read about it in old books. That was back when choice was a thing. Digg got destroyed in a matter of weeks because they did something users didn't like. Now Facebook is openly contributing to destroying democracy and all they get is one bad financial year. These things are way too big and wield way too much power.

And, with all due and undue respect, statements like yours are part of the problem. I don't know what your intent was, but you come off as defending twitter on this as there was no written contract. While everyone is equal under codified law, we shouldn't forget some people have more influence than others over what gets codified.

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#193

Post by eddieroger »

hda2 wrote: post #45
tofuahdude wrote: post #16

You don't need to use Twitter's JS to show Tweets. If you choose to use their system, you're subject to their rules. If you don't like their rules, don't use their stuff. Calling it "altering the public record" is a little hyperbolic imo. If you want to act as a repository for the public record, you better use your own system. Twitter is under no obligation to retain this kind of stuff on your behalf. I'm not trying…

> Twitter is under no obligation to retain this kind of stuff on your behalf. They declared something worked one way then silently changed how that thing works without properly announcing the change first and giving people enough time to adapt. Would you still be willing to make these excuses if your emails provider decided to do the same thing? Even if it's their system, there's a limit where people would rightfully…

If my email provider started doing something I don't like, shame on me for not saving a copy of my mail. Unless I'm explicitly paying them to keep a copy, which I'm pretty sure nobody using Twitter is doing, then they get to set the rules. And if I don't like the rules, I don't have to use the system, just like I wouldn't use a mail provider that deleted my mail without my action.

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#194

Post by bennyp101 »

simonw wrote: post #136
bennyp101 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An email provider (which you most likely pay for - and don't publish on a website) is very different to a social media site (that you don't pay for and want it out in the public) It's a free service that they provide - why can they not change how their system works when they want? People can object whenever they want - but it doesn't change the fact that they don't have any 'rights' to show someone elses content via…

If I embed your JavaScript on my page I am giving you a HUGE amount of my trust. You should treat that as sacred.

Sure, and you would have done a risk assessment based on that.

I'm not sure why I (as a 3rd party social media platform) would treat your trust as sacred?

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#195

Post by bennyp101 »

fphhotchips wrote: post #142
bennyp101 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An email provider (which you most likely pay for - and don't publish on a website) is very different to a social media site (that you don't pay for and want it out in the public) It's a free service that they provide - why can they not change how their system works when they want? People can object whenever they want - but it doesn't change the fact that they don't have any 'rights' to show someone elses content via…

I disagree. Twitter doesn't own that content. Someone posting the Twitter JS on their website to allow Twitter to format the tweet to Twitter's brand standards and allow a link to drive traffic back to Twitter is a favour that they're doing Twitter. They should respect that favour by not changing the contract unilaterally.

Yea, I don't think people are embedding tweets on their sites to do Twitter a favour ... it's because they want to reference something and part of the TOS says to use it.

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#196

Post by bennyp101 »

nicce wrote: post #127
bennyp101 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An email provider (which you most likely pay for - and don't publish on a website) is very different to a social media site (that you don't pay for and want it out in the public) It's a free service that they provide - why can they not change how their system works when they want? People can object whenever they want - but it doesn't change the fact that they don't have any 'rights' to show someone elses content via…

I would argue that statistically the most people don’t pay for their email provider with money. In that term not a very strong argument.

The "Would you still be willing to make these excuses if your emails provider decided to do the same thing?" statement I was replying to was a bit weak as weak :)

But in the case of not paying for your email, then that is also on you to acknowledge there is a set of terms, and you can adhere or not. I certainly wouldn't expect a free service to owe me anything.

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#197

Post by BlueTemplar »

batch12 wrote: post #176
tofuahdude wrote: post #16

You don't need to use Twitter's JS to show Tweets. If you choose to use their system, you're subject to their rules. If you don't like their rules, don't use their stuff. Calling it "altering the public record" is a little hyperbolic imo. If you want to act as a repository for the public record, you better use your own system. Twitter is under no obligation to retain this kind of stuff on your behalf. I'm not trying…

It is entertaining to watch the waves of opinion crash against each other when things happen that people don't like. The cognitive dissonance must must a deafening roar. On one hand, people get miffed when twitter changes their JS to block out quotes of deleted tweets, citing an alteration of the public record. On the other hand, people argue that twitter is not a "public square" and can do what they want with the co…

And the crux of the issue is that a for profit corporation has been allowed to grow until it has become a de facto public square.

Even journalists, who really should know better are now quoting tweets.

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#198

Post by mgamache »

blendergeek wrote: post #190

I see so many people here arguing that by embedding javascript directly from Twitter, you are accepting whatever they choose to make that javascript do. While that is true to an extent, Twitter has provided documentation for this javascript that says that if the Tweet gets deleted, the javascript will simply stop styling your quote of the tweet that you have on your website. By changing the behavior of the javascript…

"Twitter has broken every rule of being a good distributor of third-party code." Yes, and you've broken every rule of common sense by thinking that their goals are your goals and they have any interest in being a 'good' anything besides profitable. You are embedding code from a a money making bot. To expect them to host deleted tweets forever as some public record is absurd.

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#199

Post by genidoi »

hamilyon2 wrote: post #110
polydevil wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- copy paste the content of the tweet - meta data is lost (date and time, author, obv it is possible to copy paste the text and add links to original tweet and link to an author; - screenshot - now you dont have to add custom styles, meta data exists, but it is not usable - you can make is to click on tweet will open a tweet, but click on tweet author will open authors profile. Also screenreaders and bots - they dont…

Do web browsers nowadays have a way to save a part of html dom with every style inlined? If not, that is a huge opportunity.

SinglePage the chrome extension does this I believe

Re: Twitter is using its embedded JavaScript to hide tweets that have been deleted

#200

Post by BlueTemplar »

epeus wrote: post #143
chaps wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you trust them from the beginning? Serious question.

We trusted them because they were committed to being part of the wider web, and as you can see from Ben Ward's tweet at the time, took that seriously.

You mean like when they removed their public API in 2014 ?
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