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What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

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Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#191

Post by rglullis »

arkades wrote: post #167
rglullis wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really matter?! Are you really that careless with your privacy and your basic freedoms to the point that you make your choices based on the ~battery life~ of your computing device? Sorry to pick on you, but whenever I hear these sorts of questions I realize how shallow people can be, even those who are (supposedly) informed and smart enough to know better. To be worried about the inconvenience of ~shorter bat…

You take a very extreme, all or nothing stance. The rest of us make trade offs.

You make trade-offs on dimensions that do not violate fundamental principles or when you are confronted with a situation when you need to choose the lesser of two evils.

"Inconvenience caused by a shorter-battery life" vs "patronizing a company that is systematically abusing its power to take away freedom from everyone" is not such a case that requires any type of trade-off to be made.

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#192

Post by rootusrootus »

smoldesu wrote: post #175
gigaflop wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of Windows Search Indexer on my PC. Microsoft's spying aside, it apparently needs 13.5% or more of my CPU at all times. It started after I updated multiple time sin a row, and for the past few weeks, has never stopped. I've killed it via task manager, only to have it come back shortly after.

Even worse is the Mac search indexer. Ever wonder why your CPU temps are pinned at 90c in low-power mode? Open activity monitor, cmd+f for mdworker, and you found your culprit. It's insane that they enable thay be default...

I've never had spotlight hog things for more than a few hours, and only after a fresh install. It's generally well behaved. And it's very useful and fast for searching.

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#193

Post by seanw444 »

cafed00d wrote: post #190
koprulusector wrote: post #93

>Over the last year or so Mac users have run into problems that appear related to a background service named triald. Some report it stealing huge amounts of CPU, others associate it with various glitches, and a few have noticed gigabytes of disk space apparently being taken up by its folder at ~/Library/Trial, and in their Time Machine backups. This article explains as much as I know about this mysterious new service…

> - Apple can double speak all they want about digital privacy, but their actions tell the truth. As a paying Apple customer, you’re not deemed worthy enough to even understand how your own machines work, less even to “tamper” with their working, and who knows what data is actually being shared? > - Personally, I say no thank you. I’ve been on Debian or a variant for almost 10 years now, and haven’t looked back. It’s…

Try again. Linux Mint is fantastically simple to use, and legitimately "just works" for average-Joe uses cases.

Linux, and its various distros, are an ever-evolving tech. Linux 10 years ago was so much less capable than Linux in 2022. Just because it didn't work then, definitely doesn't mean it won't work now.

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#194

Post by mlyle »

rglullis wrote: post #180
mlyle wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. It doesn't matter if the effects of the marshmallow test are true or not. The idea is just to illustrate how tech people are as weak-willed, short-term focused and plain "convenience-at-all-costs" as the general consumers. Can you explain to me what the long term gain I could expect, exactly, by foregoing a MacOS laptop? I have lots of computing devices; many are Linux, a couple are Windows, and I have an Apple…

> Can you explain to me what the long term gain I could expect, exactly, by foregoing a MacOS laptop? You would not be contributing to an ecosystem controlled by a single entity who is increasingly abusing their dominance to extract more rent from consumers and other developers.

> You would not be contributing to an ecosystem controlled by a single entity who is increasingly abusing their dominance to extract more rent from consumers and other developers.

c.f.

> > If you're going to argue about some kind of collective loss by many people making the same choice as me-- that we all lose freedom, etc-- spare me. Tragedy of the commons, etc: not enough people are going to make the choice you're posing to have any significant effect.

So, I'd be using my market power to advocate for things that are disproportionately important to you at my own expense. That doesn't seem like "freedom".

I've been a Linux user and developer forever. For awhile, I was a kernel subsystem maintainer. I've walked the walk about making free software available and useful.

I also believe having a Mac laptop benefits me, and is worth the money, and that it is not morally corrosive. Can you please spare me the judgment that I'm "weak-willed" or stupid for my choice?

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#195

Post by switchbak »

cafed00d wrote: post #190
koprulusector wrote: post #93

>Over the last year or so Mac users have run into problems that appear related to a background service named triald. Some report it stealing huge amounts of CPU, others associate it with various glitches, and a few have noticed gigabytes of disk space apparently being taken up by its folder at ~/Library/Trial, and in their Time Machine backups. This article explains as much as I know about this mysterious new service…

> - Apple can double speak all they want about digital privacy, but their actions tell the truth. As a paying Apple customer, you’re not deemed worthy enough to even understand how your own machines work, less even to “tamper” with their working, and who knows what data is actually being shared? > - Personally, I say no thank you. I’ve been on Debian or a variant for almost 10 years now, and haven’t looked back. It’s…

I think Linux to many is a hobby much like woodworking, one that can also help feed their identity. I've been there myself.

I don't think you can expect deep empathy and a strong desire to simplify things down to the grandparent level if much of the reason for using the system is for geek cred and a landscape for such endless tuning/tweaking.

I'd even put myself in the latter camp, I like tuning things!

Certainly Linux on the desktop has gotten dramatically better over the last few years, but I don't see it ever getting to appliance level without really cutting out what we typically associate with the flexibility of Linux (more like Android or a set top box)

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#196

Post by rootusrootus »

sneak wrote: post #75
skygazer wrote: post #9

I trust that Apple isn't doing anything nefarious here, but at the same time, I'm quite grateful that others aren't so trusting. I want the "white hat" suspicious and skeptical rooting through everything. In fact, I don't think I'd trust Apple so much if it weren't for those that don't trust them. Their constructive distrust enables my trust.

Why do you trust that? Apple has specifically admitted to having a nefarious plan to scan your local files without consent and further use your computer (also without consent) to report on you to law enforcement. This may well be that implementation. The latest desktop and mobile OSes are quietly shipping code to enable this, despite the uproar that happened when Apple announced it. They let people believe they were…

> Why do you trust that?

Not OP, but I'll throw my two cents in. While some people on HN were hyperventilating about the CSAM thing, I was digging into the docs to see what was actually happening. In every instance, I found myself a bit more impressed with how much engineering the folks at Apple clearly put into making it work without compromising privacy. Contrary to what people kept saying here on HN. It made me a lot more suspicious of randos on HN and a bit more willing to give Apple the benefit of the doubt.

I'm always amenable to more actual evidence, but as of yet that seems completely lacking. If I were more conspiracy minded I'd wonder if there was an orchestrated effort.

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#197

Post by shrimp_emoji »

switchbak wrote: post #195
cafed00d wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Apple can double speak all they want about digital privacy, but their actions tell the truth. As a paying Apple customer, you’re not deemed worthy enough to even understand how your own machines work, less even to “tamper” with their working, and who knows what data is actually being shared? > - Personally, I say no thank you. I’ve been on Debian or a variant for almost 10 years now, and haven’t looked back. It’s…

I think Linux to many is a hobby much like woodworking, one that can also help feed their identity. I've been there myself. I don't think you can expect deep empathy and a strong desire to simplify things down to the grandparent level if much of the reason for using the system is for geek cred and a landscape for such endless tuning/tweaking. I'd even put myself in the latter camp, I like tuning things! Certainly Lin…

I feel more like it's analogous to driving a stick shift or baking your own bread. "This is superior; everyone should be doing it!" The problem with that sentiment is that it's 100% true yet totally unrealistic (for reasons unknown -- I don't know why every grandparent out there can't learn to use the command line, from a neurological perspective), and the dissonance erupts like steam from a geyser when those people see the folly of not doing those things.

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#198

Post by rootusrootus »

londons_explore wrote: post #57
BluSyn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I checked mine, and I see lots of mention of "Siri" (TEXT TO SPEECH, FIND MY, etc). Seems most likely this is A/B testing for ML models, such as those for Siri and Photos analysis? That's my best guess. Since Siri and Photos now processes more locally (especially on M1's dedicated ML cores), all the training improvements and testing probably happen locally as well. It makes sense it would regularly download updates f…

I think apple is pretty invested in distributed ML training. Ie. your PC will go through your photo gallery/siri audio data, and use the labels and stuff to fine-tune an apple-provided ML model. The fine-tunings are then re-uploaded to apple, added up, and distributed to other users in the next update. The privacy implications of this are dubious. There is as-yet no good research showing how these finetuned models ca…

> The fine-tunings are then re-uploaded to apple, added up, and distributed to other users in the next update.

IMO this is the kind of statement that should have something to back it up.

Re: What is triald and why is it taking so much disk space?

#199

Post by 30367286 »

seanw444 wrote: post #193
cafed00d wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Apple can double speak all they want about digital privacy, but their actions tell the truth. As a paying Apple customer, you’re not deemed worthy enough to even understand how your own machines work, less even to “tamper” with their working, and who knows what data is actually being shared? > - Personally, I say no thank you. I’ve been on Debian or a variant for almost 10 years now, and haven’t looked back. It’s…

Try again. Linux Mint is fantastically simple to use, and legitimately "just works" for average-Joe uses cases. Linux, and its various distros, are an ever-evolving tech. Linux 10 years ago was so much less capable than Linux in 2022. Just because it didn't work then, definitely doesn't mean it won't work now.

On what laptops does sleep/hibernate work correctly when you close the lid, with Mint?

Seriously, swear to fucking god, every time someone says “oh Linux just works”, the next comment is “oh? I tried that distro on the recommended hardware and had trouble with…”

Next response is ALWAYS: “Oh yeah that’s broken but I don’t use that feature.” Usually about hibernate. As in, apparently everyone using a laptop plugged into a wall and never closes the lid. Or uses a desktop. I don’t even know, it doesn’t make any goddamn sense.

I just don’t believe you guys any more. Everyone who says Linux just works has adapted their workflows to be hyper specific to the things they do, and have just decided that basic-ass features present and working on mainstream OSes are just gimmicks that the rest of us should forgo out of moral purity.

Also with this “try again” noise. Good lord, happy y’all are blessed with the patience to try again until you find the right Goldilocks set of hardware and tweaks that doesn’t give you a migraine but there exists a large contingency of the population that doesn’t spend every waking moment staring at glowing rectangles. Spare us a fucking thought, and spare a thought for our relatives who took years to learn how to double click.

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